[zoneouddy]

Hello all, I was just curious. Could anyone explain to me how thoughts caused by OCD affects one's spirituality and well-being in life? As a person with OCD I deal with intrusive thoughts. From my very limited experience, I have read that one must tame their thoughts, or that we become our thoughts. But, from a none Buddhist point of view, I have read that our thoughts are not who we truly are (which I believe, don't we all have bad thoughts?). So, what I am curious about, is how does the thoughts caused by OCD and other mental illnesses affect one's spirituality? Is that even a subject applicable to Buddhism itself? Or would Buddhists consider the thoughts to be not caused by an illness? Thank you for your thoughts, this has been pestering me for a week or so now, and I was curious to hear others thoughts!

[22paseabelldaps]

Welcome Zack. I'm definately not an expert, but its true that we're not our thoughts, so I really don't think that random thoughts affect our spirituality - because all kinds of thoughts usually come and go for most us. Its only when we solidify them/act them out that they might begin to become a problem. I think if we can learn to just gently relax with the breathing and let them go again, it can be helpful.

[xanonlinexan]

That's definitely a good way to look at it. I, through meditation, have been "cleansing" myself of them. Accepting them, because not accepting them only makes them worse. By accepting them they slowly leave. When I say slowly, I mean VERY slowly, but they are! Also, I don't want people to think I am going against the rules by this being me talking to you all like a psychotherapist, this has just been something I've pondered, and I wanted to hear some views and what not

[Longwow]

Here's a quote from Ajahn Sumedho of the Theravada Thai Forest Tradition from his
book "The Sound of Silence" page 21.

"The mind wanders, and you start thinking, and then it will start planning for the future or remembering the past.

Awareness then, is bringing attention to the way the mind works. The future is a thought in the mind, in the present, and the past is a memory. You can be aware of thinking, be aware of thought.

We are not our thoughts; our thoughts are artificial creations. So we can think anything. It can be reasonable or totally insane or whatever, but thinking is an artifice that we tend to identify with, intimidate ourselves with, and we let our thoughts control us. So we're establishing a sense of confidence in the present, mindfulness, sati -sampajanna, here and now" source:

http://books.google.com/books?id=TqK...d=0CBUQ6AEwAA#

[BrainTop]

That's definitely a good way to look at it. I, through meditation, have been "cleansing" myself of them. Accepting them, because not accepting them only makes them worse. By accepting them they slowly leave. When I say slowly, I mean VERY slowly, but they are! Also, I don't want people to think I am going against the rules by this being me talking to you all like a psychotherapist, this has just been something I've pondered, and I wanted to hear some views and what not

Sorry Zack, I must have been posting my second post at the same time as you, lol !

Yes indeed, meditation and just accepting our thought and very gently bringing our attention to the here and now is very helpful.

[codecouponqw]

That is a fantastic thing you just posted. It's essentially, to me, saying that as humans we often let our thoughts control us, and with that we BELIEVE them. But, in life we should follow our hearts and even though our minds (because of whatever reason) will think the opposite of what we feel, or be bad or good or whatever, we need to remember that we can control it and understand why those other bad thoughts come into place, and with that follow our hearts and let the other thoughts be accepted but ignored. Sorry for the run-on sentence, but that's really enlightening to me.

[GrolmangHat27]

Or would Buddhists consider the thoughts to be not caused by an illness?

Hi Zack

I consider this thread to be important

My opinion is thoughts are causes by at least two things: (1) emotion and (2) view

Our natural emotions, such as sensual desire, fear, uncertainty, etc, can cause thoughts

Our views or underlying belief systems can also cause and influence thoughts

So I do not regard thoughts being primarily caused by some uncontrollable & inherent illness but, rather, also by the nature of our views & beliefs

The Buddha taught thoughts & emotions can be managed by adjusting our views. He called this wise reflection or reasoned consideration (yonisomanasikara).

The Buddha taught, by using wise reflection, we can train our mind to have the ability to replace one kind of thought with another kind of thought

The human mind is certainly something very unique and unusual. It can observe itself, observe its thoughts and then make the decision to change its thoughts to something more peaceful & beneficial

The Buddha regarded this wise reflection as something to be 'developed' or 'learned'. We can train, learn & develop this ability, little by little, bit by bit.

Kind regards

[ptolerezort]

Zack, I think you're courageous to ask this question here. The kind of meditation you describe (and Aloka-D's and Element's insightful highlighting of it) have helped me immensely with this issue. You seem to be on the right track to me, and what Aloka-D & Element said is spot on supplementation.

May you continue to find the causes of true happiness within.

BuckyG

[MartZubok]

Element, thank you for that post! It's quite interesting really considering all I have been reading is actually very consistent with how medical professionals describe OCD and such, or at least, the reasoning for the thoughts. They generally say that the thoughts essentially go after what is good to you, and affect your fears and try to make them true by putting thoughts in your head about them, which does coincide with all that is being said.

BuckyG, it's wonderful someone else has benefited from such meditation! I have only been doing it for a very very short period of time, but I have confidence that with time it will only be something that helps me heal. Even now it's helpful, but I believe in a few months time, and even longer into the future, it'll be a more substantial amount.

[Kimmitmelvirm]

We can train, learn & develop this ability, little by little, bit by bit.

Yes. Very true, even when it seems an outstanding task.

[oplapofffe]

Oh, it is a VERY outstanding task! It's hard to deal with these thoughts that seem to not belong with you, they evoke bad emotions because you know it's not part of you. It's definitely hard, but I'm learning to control it and cope with it. Well, that's OCD for ya! But, I think I'm getting there

[ugosanchezo]

Hi, Zack. I don't have OCD, but like most people, I sometimes find myself hung up on a certain feeling or idea. When that happens, whether in meditation or in "ordinary" activities, I first have to become consciously aware that I'm hung up on the feeling or idea. Having caught myself being hung up on it, then I can respond with something like, "Well, that's a temporary feeling/idea. It's just brain activity. It will pass and be replaced by something else soon enough. No need to cling to it or give it any more importance than any other feeling/idea." That is, no reason to act on it, no reason to try to suppress it. Just watch it arise and pass. Detach from it. It's not you, and it's not permanent.

Here's something that may be helpful to you:

Dynamic Insight (vipassana)

Once focus of attention has been established and distractions minimized, the meditator is in a position to begin practicing insight meditation. This type of meditation involves a conscious return to activity and observing the movement of the mind. With this method of meditation, The Four Noble Truths are reconsidered as a description of the dynamic thought process. In other words, thoughts arise; there is a reason why thoughts arise (AND persist); thoughts pass away; and there is a way to understand this whole process.

In a sense, insight meditation returns to a stirring of the mind — but with a new awareness. The thought process is freed but is observed with fresh eyes. The dynamic nature of thought is watched and when the flow of thought is impeded, the observer looks at the reasons why a particular thought may be attractive. Attachment or clinging to thought is observed in this way. The root of emotions can be understood by such observation. Some monks liken this process to watching the same movie over and over again. When we cling to thought, for whatever reason, watching its return is like watching reruns, “Oh, I’ve seen this one before....” In this way, emotions and thoughts are not controlled, rather they are grasped as they arise and can be rechanneled or dealt with properly before we become fixated or hung up on them. From: http://www.thaibuddhism.net/meditation.htm

[Pashtet]

Former Buddhist Monk, thank you for posting that. It's an interesting read because it makes me think meditation is about removing yourself from you and looking at what is going on in you. I see "attraction" as not a good or bad thing, but both. Your mind can be attracted to bad I believe because it causes you stress, just like attraction to good does just the opposite. It's wonderful insight to see how I can deal with OCD by introspection and what not, but maybe I am seeing this wrong? I believe some thoughts are good and cause you happiness, but sometimes we have thoughts that we don't want and they torture us, and by allowing it we make it worse, and acceptance is key there.

[JeremyBalll]

thoughts are not an illness

everybody has thoughts

when a thought appears in the mind and we involve in it is a 'sort of' illness that all we have, not only you have or not only with so called 'mentally ill' people have

i used 'so called' because Lord Buddha said 'we all are mentally ill until we know what the reality in this life is'


look at the 'thought' appears in the mind
say one of your friend comes to your mind
if you are not mindful, you involve with that thought (with the friend appears in the mind) and you think about the things you have done with him or things that you are going to do with him, thinking the friend in the mind is a real person

but actually 'that friend' is a thought
if you know (mindful) you can just Let Go of 'that friend' and your mind is free
you do not have to worry about the past (the things happened with that friend) or the future (things going to happen with that friend)

see, how easily we can Let Go of thoughts and have a free mind, no sorrow, no fear, no expectation which brings a sorrow or fear again etc.

[Styparty]

Oh, it is a VERY outstanding task! It's hard to deal with these thoughts that seem to not belong with you, they evoke bad emotions because you know it's not part of you. It's definitely hard, but I'm learning to control it and cope with it. Well, that's OCD for ya! But, I think I'm getting there

Hi Zack,
I don't know about OCD but what you describe is pretty much the function of thoughts per se. They nurture and feed our self identity, telling us who we are and creating a dialogue backdrop for our lives.

Once dissolved, there is open clarity and peaceful awareness. There is no need to give them a foothold, we just do it out of habit and because we know no better.

[leijggigf]

I vaguely recall reading somewhere in a book about Buddhist philosophy that thinking is the function of the brain, just as breathing is the function of the lungs. That's what it's physically designed to do. Neuroscience is helping us discover how emotions and thoughts are generated by living tissue, but it's a young field and there are a lot of unanswered questions. My guess is that OCD has organic origins, but that doesn't mean that there's nothing you can do about it. It may require medication, or it might require becoming adept at mental yoga (meditation). Keep in mind, though, that the various types of meditation described in the suttas were not designed to deal with OCD. On the other hand, if you consider OCD as an exaggerated 'monkey mind', that might help. Best of luck, Zack and BuckyG!

[Knillagrarp]

Hello Zack,

I don't have any of the wonderful insights that some of the posters above, but I can only state as someone diagnosed with a mental illness (schizophrenia) that Buddhist practice has been of great benefit to me, the stilling and calming of internal chatter and becoming more focused in time have aided me a lot and have definitely reduced any symptoms I have. I have certain thoughts about western psychiatry and the psychotic break, but they are a bit irrelevant to what I'm posting.

I can, however, relate an anecdote, I had been reading a book about how a guy studying zen had wanted to use the time he spent on crowded Japanese trains to practice, I thought I'd try it myself so while on a tram I kept my eyes open and focused on breathing, I didn't notice the guy in front of me at first but when I looked up I noticed he was a big scary bloke with a snake tattoo on his neck, immediately my brain wanted to go into paranoid fantasy mode, maybe he's involved with those crooks I had trouble with when I was using drugs, maybe they have sent him to give me a beating! I should get off the tram and run! Instead I just returned my focus to my breath and my mind stilled and I carried on calmly with my journey.

All I can say is stick at it, eventually we will find the peace we seek.

Namaste.

L_T.

[aideriimibion]

Thank you for starting this thread. Having bipolar, things have been exceedingly difficult. Meditation isn't possible while in psychosis so when I'm "with it" I want to try and incorporate everything I can. These are all helpful suggestions and I have to read through them several times. But thanks for bringing this up.