[Nopayof]

Long-time lurker...

I have been going through a lot of unruly emotions.

When I meditate oftentimes I have this feeling of "I want" ... many times it doesn't even attach itself to anything, such as "I want this book" or "I want this food"...it's like this persistent thirst or lust, for something that doesn't even have a name!...

I can see sometimes that the cravings don't have substance...and that if I continue to run on the fumes of emotion, thought, and sensation, drunk on attachment and sensory input...I might not know exactly what would happen, but it's clearly not feasible.

It's times like these that I think, "I sure hope I am one of those kinds of beings who the Buddha was exhorted by Brahma to teach, whose eyes are 'but a little blinded by the dust of passion' (so that there's hope for me.)"

Well, this wasn't really a question I guess...I just felt people here would relate....

[Enjoymms]

I don't know, but it sounds good, like meditation is bringing a lot of stuff to your attention. How long do you sit at a time, and what do you do when these thoughts occur?

[Mehntswx]

Oh I agree...it is a good thing, not a problem. This craving has always been there. It's just my awareness is a little more refined.

Usually I meditate for 30 min / day...some days I do an hour.

It's weird because most people would not call me "drunk on attachment and sensory input." I'm a quiet person and do not give the impression of being greedy. But when I think of how much suffering is going on every day, and how my resources could be better spent by doing more meditation practice, showing more kindness, and forgoing more distractions (of all kinds) so that I can have some peace of mind for myself, and provide more for other people.

Then I think like...geez... but I want stuff so much, I can see it, it's not healthy; is it possible for someone so afflicted by delusion to even aspire to bodhisattva-hood?

Well it was just a down day today...no big deal. And getting "back to the fight" is too important to make a problem out of this feeling of discouragement.

Thanks fojiao2...it is good. I will get through it. Just needed to sound off.

[Aceroassert]

Hi Seeuzin, good to see you posting again !

When I meditate oftentimes I have this feeling of "I want" ...

Feelings come and go in meditation -when you become aware that you're thinking, bring the mind gently back to focusing on the breath again.

But when I think of how much suffering is going on every day, and how my resources could be better spent by doing more meditation practice, showing more kindness, and forgoing more distractions (of all kinds) so that I can have some peace of mind for myself, and provide more for other people. There's nothing wrong with wanting positive things for self and others, but its important
not to get over anxious about it and to relax a little and just take one step at a time.

You haven't said whether you've had offline meditation instruction or not - but I think Samatha meditation is possibly the best method to begin with, if you're a beginner and not attending a meditation class.

There are some Buddhist meditation instruction videos in our Study Links section which might be helpful for you too.

with kind wishes,

A-D

[loikrso]

So, is what you are saying is that meditation makes you aware of how much you want things?

[gypearteday]

Hello Seeuzin

I can understand what you are saying. My mind jumps around like a frog in every direction!
Perhaps you are meditating for too long? What about trying a much shorter period but doing it maybe twice or more times a day?
I am sure more experienced people will give better advice.

[derty]

What about trying a much shorter period but doing it maybe twice or more times a day?
I am sure more experienced people will give better advice.

I was originally advised offline that 10 minutes twice daily (morning and evening) was ok to begin with. Eventually the time can gradually be increased a little.

[Roorseprate]

Dear Aloka

10 minutes is an ideal target for me, if I can achieve the taming of my thoughts for that long I consider it an excellent achievement! I have such a buzzing mind, even musical tunes go on in my head. I have recently been a bit upset with family problems and my mind's dreams are even more vivid and restless than usual.

It is so good to calm that torrent of thinking and just be utterly still and quiet. I am certain it does untold good mentally and physically, helps you heal throughout yourself.

[Abedgebeefs]

.
It is so good to calm that torrent of thinking and just be utterly still and quiet. I am certain it does untold good mentally and physically, helps you heal throughout yourself.

Absolutely !

[ignonsoli]

Just a thought, but have you ever considered that maybe you're depriving yourself of something that you NEED, and it's coming back to you in your meditation sessions? Or maybe that you are simply depriving yourself of a little fun/play or something specifically for YOU? Or maybe the way your going about meditating isn't right for you? Ever tried doing something different?

My mind roams anyway, but I have noticed that if I try to meditate at certain times of day, or sitting certain ways, it all just goes to crap. I start thinking of things I want, or projects to start... Anything but stilling my mind.

Couldn't hurt to try, methinks.

[sisuarmalmicy]

My mind roams anyway, but I have noticed that if I try to meditate at certain times of day, or sitting certain ways, it all just goes to crap.

Focus on your breath and let your thoughts arise and cease. Just sit for 5 minutes. Don't force yourself. The idea is to start to see your thoughts as just thoughts, at least while sitting.

[mArVHDO6]

What happens during mind-calming (sammatha) meditation is that you become aware of just how busy your mind really is. A sense of urgency arises because just sitting there doing nothing seems so contrary to everything you have always done. In Tibet, there is a saying that when a sheet of paper is rolled up, every time you try to lay it out flat it wants to roll up again. But eventually, it will lie flat. The mind is just like this. So you have to be patient, and add another minute each day to your meditation time.

At some point, you will notice that even though all sorts of thoughts arise, they are no longer a distraction. It is similar to having a conversation with someone while kids are playing in the next room, or a short distance away. they make all sorts of noise, but they keep themselves busy. You know they are there, but they do not distract you from the focus of your conversation. Likewise, at some point you will still be aware of arising thoughts, but they won't interrupt you any more.

At this point many people start to become acutely aware of sounds and other things in their environment, things they never noticed before. But this is a distraction and it too falls away with practice.

later, there is just a sort of awareness of the mind's awareness, without that being any kind of specific 'thought' and you can find that you are able to sit for hours if you want to, not distracted, not bored, no "want" at all.

But just give it time.




Here is something you (or anyone here) might want to explore once in a while: Focus on listening, the way you do when you hear a very faint or unusual sound, like when somebody says, "Shhhhh---do you hear that?" and while you are focused on hearing, simply notice -just casually be aware of -what your visual consciousness is up to.

Most people find that they are sort of staring off in one direction, and even though they are seeing, the mind is not on that, because it's focused on hearing. Why do this? Noticing the activity of visual consciousness while your attention is on your hearing will give you a sense of non-conceptual awareness: seeing without any arising of the thoughts of what you are seeing.

[QXCharles]

My mind roams anyway, but I have noticed that if I try to meditate at certain times of day, or sitting certain ways, it all just goes to crap. I start thinking of things I want, or projects to start... Anything but stilling my mind.

Don't worry about it, doing gentle stretches, or something that's relaxing for your body and mind like some Tai Chi movements, can often be beneficial before beginning a meditation session .

This might be a helpful reading resource:



Venerable Ajahn Sumedho: Investigation

What is Meditation?

"The word meditation is a much used word these days, covering a wide range of practices. In Buddhism it designates two kinds of meditation -- one is called 'samatha', the other 'vipassana'.

Samatha meditation is one of concentrating the mind on an object, rather than letting it wander off to other things. One chooses an object such as the sensation of breathing, and puts full attention on the sensations of the inhalation and exhalation. Eventually through this practice you begin to experience a calm mind -- and you become tranquil because you are cutting off all other impingements that come through the senses.

The objects that you use for tranquillity are tranquillising (needless to say!). If you want to have an excited mind, then go to something that is exciting, don't go to a Buddhist monastery, go to a disco! ... Excitement is easy to concentrate on, isn't it? It's so strong a vibration that it just pulls you right into it. You go to the cinema and if it is really an exciting film, you become enthralled by it. You don't have to exert any effort to watch something that is very exciting or romantic or adventurous.

But if you are not used to it, watching a tranquillising object can be terribly boring. What is more boring than watching your breath if you are used to more exciting things? So for this kind of ability, you have to arouse effort from your mind, because the breath is not interesting, not romantic, not adventurous or scintillating -- it is just as it is. So you have to arouse effort because you're not getting stimulated from outside.

In this meditation, you are not trying to create any image, but just to concentrate on the ordinary feeling of your body as it is right now: to sustain and hold your attention on your breathing. When you do that, the breath becomes more and more refined, and you calm down ... I know people who have prescribed samatha meditation for high blood pressure because it calms the heart."
Continued here:

http://www.dharmaweb.org/index.php/V..._Investigation

[AOE6q4bu]

What happens during mind-calming (sammatha) meditation is that you become aware of just how busy your mind really is. A sense of urgency arises because just sitting there doing nothing seems so contrary to everything you have always done. In Tibet, there is a saying that when a sheet of paper is rolled up, every time you try to lay it out flat it wants to roll up again. But eventually, it will lie flat. The mind is just like this. So you have to be patient, and add another minute each day to your meditation time.

At some point, you will notice that even though all sorts of thoughts arise, they are no longer a distraction. It is similar to having a conversation with someone while kids are playing in the next room, or a short distance away. they make all sorts of noise, but they keep themselves busy. You know they are there, but they do not distract you from the focus of your conversation. Likewise, at some point you will still be aware of arising thoughts, but they won't interrupt you any more.

At this point many people start to become acutely aware of sounds and other things in their environment, things they never noticed before. But this is a distraction and it too falls away with practice.

later, there is just a sort of awareness of the mind's awareness, without that being any kind of specific 'thought' and you can find that you are able to sit for hours if you want to, not distracted, not bored, no "want" at all.

But just give it time.



.

I liked this explanation a lot

Thanks Fojiao2

[AutoCadPhotoSHOP]

i label that particular feeling tone upadana, but that's just me

[insoneeri]

hey y'all...thank you so much for all the kind responses, and I'm so sorry I didn't respond. I wasn't ignoring them, just going through a hell of a rough time...I read this thread from time to time, and that a group of complete strangers would care enough to write two pages of responses really touched me even when I was feeling like my heart was closed...thank you so much!!....

I didn't go into this in the initial post, but I'm currently seeing a doctor because I had been on a medication called Abilify, which I had requested because I used to feel spaced out all the time (even though I've never done drugs.) My doctor said months back that she thinks I could get off it and be fine, and she's been lowering the dose slowly. Well...come to find out it was actually having a antidepressant/heart-numbing effect on me...going down on it was like woah...I'm having all these crazy feelings, all of a sudden: grief, anger, despair, loneliness, and above all craving for anything that could relieve it...the past two months were like my heart was getting wrung out with a tremendous amount of torque, so much so that my face was contorted into an expression of despair/rage most of the time, and people who didn't know me well would just steer clear out of...I felt it was fear...which caused me a lot of pain, too, when I wanted human connection so badly and had no intention of hurting anyone, even with words. I was so focused on "holding my pain nobly," and being skillful with others even in my suffering, that regulating my facial expression was about 10th on my list of things to do, too, when around other people....I just didn't have the energy to spare.

I'm now on what I think is generally the lowest-dose pill of Abilify that is manufactured (5mg)...gonna halt it here for a while...let myself recover. I am so, so thankful for all the kindness you folks have shown over the past few months. I hope one day I can be in service too....for now I'm sticking to a few low-stress things....giving blood, being kind, proof-reading a friend's book...

Huge gratitude-vibes to all of you guys!!

Seeuzin

[SarkisPioute]

Hi Seeuzin,

Its really good to hear from you again and thanks for telling us what's been happening . I'm so sorry that you've not been feeling too well.

I hope the lower dose medication will continue to be helpful for you.

With lots of good wishes - and sending metta to you,

Aloka-D

[dodadaxia]

Thanks - my doctor really helped -
Every time I saw her I'd say "Do you still think I can do this?" and have hope she would say yes, and she kept assuring me she had faith in me. She grew up in Lebanon and is tough as nails, so I knew she wasn't just saying it to avoid upsetting a patient.
You don't find many psychiatrists like that. I will always admire her. So young and so wise.

edit:
Now when being sad, happy, or whatever...I am so grateful for feeling "human."
Sometimes recently when I was in a good mood, I would come to my doctor and say "Is this normal to feel this way? Am I getting bipolar disorder or something?" I'm still so fearful of feeling "okay" because it's outside my range of experience....I was a broken spirit for a good 10 years. She just laughs and tells me it's alright to feel good; that I'm a grateful, sensible person, hardly grandiose or manic, and to stop questioning it. Such a relief!! I'm so grateful I cry sometimes. And the good days are coming more often.

[ricochettty]

Thanks - my doctor really helped -
Every time I saw her I'd say "Do you still think I can do this?" and have hope she would say yes, and she kept assuring me she had faith in me. She grew up in Lebanon and is tough as nails, so I knew she wasn't just saying it to avoid upsetting a patient.
You don't find many psychiatrists like that. I will always admire her. So young and so wise.

Great news that you've got a doctor you feel confident about.