[venediene]

I am sure questions like this come up all the time but I'll ask it anyway. I keep a number of free-range hens in a remote country area. Recently some mink were either released or escaped from a local fur farm. I cannot secure my hens but have been offered traps to catch the mink alive. If I were to catch one I am then faced with four options: To let the mink to go free and kill my hens, to return the mink to the farm where it will be used for its fur, to return it to the farm to allow it to be killed or to kill it myself. All of these options will ensure suffering at some point to either the mink or hens so which is the most ethical option.

I have been pondering this for some time along with a similar problem when i found fleas on my dog(!) so would be grateful for insight.

[mirzaterak]

To save your hens, capture the mink. Knowing it is someone else's property (if it is), the ethical thing is to return it. What they do with it isn't on your shoulders, but knowingly keeping it would be the same as stealing it, in my opinion anyway.

[ZXRamon]

To save your hens, capture the mink. Knowing it is someone else's property (if it is), the ethical thing is to return it. What they do with it isn't on your shoulders, but knowingly keeping it would be the same as stealing it, in my opinion anyway.

It seems the minks do not believe they are anyone's property. Another option might be to see if anybody would want to adopt them.

[VardyCodarexyz]

That's true fojiao2, which brings it down to personal discernment. We can choose to look at it in a conventional sense, in an ultimate sense, or in a way that covers both. That makes it rather ambiguous though. I think that the precepts are meant to cover them both, and so the spirit of not taking what is not given might apply equally to a pet or other "owned animal" as it would to a lost wallet. Whether living or un-living, it is all empty, and so we have to make a personal call in such a situation as this one.

If we know the mink belongs to someone else and we keep it or give it away, surely its owner would look upon us as a thief were it known, and may seek reprisal. It could be a cow or a dog, and we have no certainty as to any of their fates, but if we live in a society that agrees there is ownership of such animals, well, we have this quandary.

I would not wish to be in those circumstances, as regrettably I still conclude that the right thing to do would be to return the animal, and compassion does make this a little painful. I can't even kill a ladybug, just so you understand how I view other forms of life personally... however we do all die sometime, must accept this for ourselves, and so must weigh the certainty of death in with the possibility of harm coming from a human owner as well. There are many factors, and so many different ways of judging this situation.

Ultimately, leonardcrowin, you must do what you think is best. Not what I think is best, not what fojiao2 thinks is best, but what you feel in your heart and mind is true to yourself. I wish you luck!

[Qdkczrdi]

I agree, a person has to do what they think is best for their neighbor, for their chickens, for the minks, for themselves. It can become complicated because each party has a different interest in the outcome of the situation. Since the minks started the problem by escaping, perhaps it is their responsibility to remedy the situation. If the neighbor owns the minks, and the minks steal from the person who owns the chickens (by taking eggs) then perhaps a fair trade will have already been established by the minks. So, another option is to let the minks steal the eggs (do minks also kill chickens?) and then there is no need to return the minks, because the minks have already evened things out. The value of a mink compared to the value of an egg or a chicken is purely arbitrary.

[chadnezzrr]

If they were escaped monks rather than minks this situation might be easier to resolve.

[Vapepreab]

Thank you. For me the question does not come down to one of ownership. Mink are not native to Ireland and will kill indiscriminately, therefore cannot be kept or adopted. They are kept by farmers here only for their fur so their release, be it accidental or deliberate, can be seen as liberation but should that freedom be at the expense of others. If my hens were taken by a fox, which are indigenous and so an accepted part of life, I would not have this dilemma. I should add that my hens are not used for food and their eggs are unfertilised so no life is lost in their use.

[SetSnonejog]

Welcome to the group. leonardcrowin !

I'm afraid I can't offer you any answers to your question other than possibly trying to make your hens more secure. If one mink has escaped, others may follow.

However, I doubt it can be considered ethical to return animals to the kind of life they have on fur farms before ending up as a dead fashion item worn by rich women.

Please take a moment to have a look at the photos of caged animals in a mink farm on Tsem Tulku Rinpoche's website at the link below.

Tsem Rinpoche says :



One of my students, Jamie Khoo (liaison and senior editor in KMP), sent this to me over Facebook. It shows us how even people from a civilized and developed country can participate in such cruel and inhumane acts towards animals.

A lot of people think that these type of treatment towards animals only happens in less developed nations. They blame it on limited education, harsh living conditions….with a lucrative market to drive them to such terrible things.

This is clearly untrue. As long as there is a demand and a market for ANIMAL FUR, people (regardless of race etc) will supply…animals will be killed..animals will suffer.

Tsem Tulku
http://blog.tsemtulku.com/tsem-tulku...in-sweden.html

.

[Chooriwrocaey]

Another way to look at it, and i think in some Buddhist traditions this would be considered ethical, is that although it has been argued that keeping the minks is stealing (although, if they escaped I might argue that they are otherwise free) it can also be argued that by keeping them, if you ever catch them, you are preventing your neighbor from killing them, and that is good for your neighbor.

Of course, this has to do with how karma (kamma) is understood. If, by keeping the minks, I experience the negative results of theft, then by the same principle your neighbor would experience negative results from killing the minks you would otherwise return to him. In that light, if it were me, and it isn't, but if it were, I would risk for myself any negative result I might experience from what might be considered theft, in order to benefit the minks and the neighbor.

[Ecurrexchangess]

This reminds me of another incident. I keep a dog-rescuing kit in my car (a plastic bag with a can of wet dog food, some treats, and a couple of different size leashes) because there are a lot of times when i see stray dogs and I try to capture them and sometimes I find their owners, sometimes they go to an animal shelter and sometimes they end up living with us.

Anyway, one time this little dog was running through the street (a dangerous thing to do) and I tried to catch it. Finally, it ran up to somebody's front door. I knocked on the door, and when the person answered, he (the person, not the dog) said, "Oh that stupid little dog must have gotten out!" and I told him (the person, not the dog), "Well your dog can't be too stupid if it knows how to turn the handle on the door".

Here was an example of the person blaming the dog for the door being left open. A mink is just a mink and is going to do what a mink does, regardless of whether it is in Ireland or not (what if you trap a leprechaun who is in the form of a mink?) and it is not the mink's fault if the owner does not keep it locked in.

Did the neighbor offer you the traps? If so, and you catch the minks, then your neighbor still owes you a trapper's fee. I would charge a fee of one mink. If the mink comes onto your property, it poses a threat to your property, to your chickens. Technically, your neighbor should be worried about your chickens.

[BreeveKambmak]

Another way to look at it, and i think in some Buddhist traditions this would be considered ethical, is that although it has been argued that keeping the minks is stealing (although, if they escaped I might argue that they are otherwise free) it can also be argued that by keeping them, if you ever catch them, you are preventing your neighbor from killing them, and that is good for your neighbor.

Of course, this has to do with how karma (kamma) is understood. If, by keeping the minks, I experience the negative results of theft, then by the same principle your neighbor would experience negative results from killing the minks you would otherwise return to him. In that light, if it were me, and it isn't, but if it were, I would risk for myself any negative result I might experience from what might be considered theft, in order to benefit the minks and the neighbor.

I enjoyed reading that !

[Elissetecausa]

If they were escaped monks rather than minks this situation might be easier to resolve.

love it