[leijggigf]

The philosopher Immanuel Kant says that the human ideal is to live the life of reason together. This means whenever we act, we must be able to explain to each other what rule we are acting on and why that rule is justifiable. But lying to each other can't ever be a justifiable rule, and that's why any lie is out.
Aristotle says that ethics is all about learning to be a good person with virtues like honesty, kindness, and self control. So a lie doesn't fit with these virtues but if the virtues give yourself a very good reason to lie, you should, but otherwise, you shouldn't.

So what position does the Dharma take? Should we never under any circumstances tell a lie? Or does it depend on the situation and using judgment to figure out which is the greater good (or the better of two evils)?

[FinanseMikky]

Hi Din

The Dharma encourages truthful speech. Why? We become trustworthy & free from worry.

However, the Dharma also teaches action is intention.

For example, if during a war, we provide refuge for certain children and soldiers come to kill those children and ask us: "Are the children with you?" and we answer: "No", this is not unwholesome speech.

[picinaRefadia]

For example, if during a war, we provide refuge for certain children and soldiers come to kill those children and ask us: "Are the children with you?" and we answer: "No", this is not unwholesome speech.

Wonderful example!

[machpamb]

You shouldn't have to lie, or be ashamed of your actions/past/opinions if they are good and pure.

That said, in reality, unless you are Dalai Lama or something... For the most part every single human being lies at one point or another.

I believe lieing is okay in certain circumstances... Such as telling a woman she looks pretty if she asks you (even if she may be fat or ugly). Lieing to spare someone's feelings is acceptable in my opinion anyway.

[oplapofffe]

http://dharmastudy.org/suttas-2/mn-6...isaro-bhikkhu/

MN 61 “… Rahula, when anyone feels no shame in telling a deliberate lie, there is no evil, I tell you, he will not do. Thus, Rahula, you should train yourself, ‘I will not tell a deliberate lie even in jest.’”

In our conventional/conceptual lives, we tend to think that white lies, lies told to spare someone's feelings or that we think "don't do any harm", are okay. This is become we are still part of that world. The Buddha would not lie, nor one who has transcended this world. They may speak the truth in a way that is not harmful, but not lie.

The precept doesn't say I will refrain from lying unless I decide it won't harm anyone. Still, it's up to each individual to walk the path as they see fit, and as their teacher... well, teaches.

[NanoKakadze]

However, the Dharma also teaches action is intention.

For example, if during a war, we provide refuge for certain children and soldiers come to kill those children and ask us: "Are the children with you?" and we answer: "No", this is not unwholesome speech

Good example. If in this instance its a choice between saving life or telling the truth, then naturally we wouldn't tell the truth.

... Such as telling a woman she looks pretty if she asks you (even if she may be fat or ugly). Lieing to spare someone's feelings is acceptable in my opinion anyway.

Personally I don't think this is an acceptable reason to lie. If for some reason I asked someone how I looked...say before going to a professional meeting ...I'd want to know the truth so that I could make modifications if necessary !

[hygtfrdes]

Originally Posted by Element However, the Dharma also teaches action is intention.

For example, if during a war, we provide refuge for certain children and soldiers come to kill those children and ask us: "Are the children with you?" and we answer: "No", this is not unwholesome speech

Good example. If in this instance its a choice between saving life or telling the truth, then naturally we wouldn't tell the truth.

... Such as telling a woman she looks pretty if she asks you (even if she may be fat or ugly). Lieing to spare someone's feelings is acceptable in my opinion anyway.

Personally I don't think this is an acceptable reason to lie. If for some reason I asked someone how I looked...say before going to a professional meeting ...I'd want to know the truth so that I could make modifications if necessary !


I would agree with you here Aloka ... the first example as described has intent to avoid harm occuring. The second example seems to seek to stroke egos - it looks like acting to say to someone of the opposite sex ( not sure about this, however the way the term woman is used, I am guessing it is written by a man) that they look nice when the individual doesn't actually think they do ( again I am supposing that to the writer fat or ugly precludes looking nice in this scenario) so to avoid hurting the questioners feelings, they say yes ....