[GroosteFoessy]

Okay, so, ive read fully every provided link/video provided to me in previous threads about all of my previous questions. For the most part, everything I was confused about or did not know, I now know and better understand.

All collective readings and results lead me to one final question that I have not yet found an answer for, nor yet fully understand.

SO, hopefully you guys can provide me with more information and help me understand, so that I won't hold onto this "neutral"/"negative"/"depressing" view of everything.

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From this link, http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Bo...d_Rebirth.pdf, I have learned all about "not-self", and have a better understanding of it. As it more or less explains, everything is a combination of a simple 'automic mechanisms', and nothing is a self, but everything exists collectively. I agree, that makes sense.

And from this link, http://www.dharmaweb.org/index.php/V...:_Instruction, I have learned even more of the meaninglessness of simple things, and how we place emotional perceptions onto everything, thus categorizing things as "good" or "bad". And, in connection with the overall "goal" of Buddhism, getting rid of unsatisfactoriness (dhukka), (and, in connection with the above link on 'non-self') we need to realize and acknowledge that nothing is 'personal', and that all of our perceptions are based on emotion... In order to not suffer.... (IE become disattached)

BUT, all of these conclusions have kind of brought me to a 'neutrality' way of thinking... And obviously love and compassion is the Buddhist way of thinking...

If there is 'no-self' (or anatta), then do our actions really matter? Does anything we do really matter? "who" cares if I be mean to someone or go around killing tons of people? In the grand scheme of the universe, these actions, and their effects, wont 'mean' anything, and no 'one' personally is effected, since nothing has a 'self' anyway....

(I dont actually think I should go around killing people lol, im just using this as an example to explain my thought-process on this matter).

Furthermore, if you can extinguish dissatisfactoriness through non-attachment of emotions and the concept of 'non-self'... Will you not simultaneously dissattach yourself from the things you LIKE? How can you accept the notion of non-self and fully truly understand that all perceptions are based on your emotions.. without at the same time isntantly rejecting all "lust" and therefore 'wants and likes'... And even deeper so, love as well? For, if you extinguish Dhukka through acceptance of non-self and disattachment from emotions, are you not also at the same time extinguishing love and all positive emotions? (if you arent, then you arent truly 'enlightened' or disattached from Dhukka are you? [i cannot say for sure, as obviously, im not enlightened])

BUT, this way of thinking is scaring me into thinking that if I do truly realize and understand the concept of disattachment and non-self that I may fall out of love of the people I love... And obviously, I dont want to stop loving my family, my wife, etc.

And snapping back a moment to my first 'way of thinking', if you do become disattached from emotions and accept 'non-self', why would it still matter that you be 'compassionate'? Again, wouldnt neutrality and your actions be almost irrelevant? Wouldnt any sort of 'compassion', 'niceness', or 'love' to others merely be more examples of attaching emotions to them and the way you perceive them?




So, if any of you can please clear this up for me, that would really be great lol. As I obviously dont want to think like this, dont want to accept nothing as mattering, and dont want to accept stop loving of the people I love... But logically, these are the conclusions ive come to based on my understanding of what ive learned so far.....

[ReneCM]

Hi Balgore,

Learning to recognise and overcome dukkha doesn't mean that we stop having loving kindness and compassion for others. Greater peace of mind and awareness means that we become naturally more open to others and their needs.

This might be helpful to you. There are the Four Sublime States. Of these Buddha said :


I. Here, monks, a disciple dwells pervading one direction with his heart filled with loving-kindness, likewise the second, the third, and the fourth direction; so above, below and around; he dwells pervading the entire world everywhere and equally with his heart filled with loving-kindness, abundant, grown great, measureless, free from enmity and free from distress.

II. Here, monks, a disciple dwells pervading one direction with his heart filled with compassion, likewise the second, the third and the fourth direction; so above, below and around; he dwells pervading the entire world everywhere and equally with his heart filled with compassion, abundant, grown great, measureless, free from enmity and free from distress.

III. Here, monks, a disciple dwells pervading one direction with his heart filled with sympathetic joy, likewise the second, the third and the fourth direction; so above, below and around; he dwells pervading the entire world everywhere and equally with his heart filled with sympathetic joy, abundant, grown great, measureless, free from enmity and free from distress.

IV. Here, monks, a disciple dwells pervading one direction with his heart filled with equanimity, likewise the second, the third and the fourth direction; so above, below and around; he dwells pervading the entire world everywhere and equally with his heart filled with equanimity, abundant, grown great, measureless, free from enmity and free from distress.

— Digha Nikaya 13

more info here:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/a.../wheel006.html

[Hervams]

"Greater peace of mind and awareness means that we become naturally more open to others and their needs."

That one sentence actually makes a lot of sense and pretty much answers my question lol. Thanks.

If anyone else has more to input on this, or other links I can read on this, all is welcomed!

[mr.nemo]

If there is 'no-self' (or anatta), then do our actions really matter? Does anything we do really matter? "who" cares if I be mean to someone or go around killing tons of people? In the grand scheme of the universe, these actions, and their effects, wont 'mean' anything, and no 'one' personally is effected, since nothing has a 'self' anyway....

Dear Balgore

For starters (I may write more at a later time), if your mind has anatta, your actions will automatically be harmless actions & good actions.

Please consider, is it when our mind is selfish that it can generate actions that can harm others?

On the other hand, is it when our mind is unselfish or selfless that it cannot generate actions that can harm others?

But yes, until our mind tastes the liberation & inevitability of anatta, it may seem 'cold' to view the misfortune of 'others' as anatta.

Kind regards

[epPtsDno]

Dear Balgore

For starters (I may write more at a later time), if your mind has anatta, your actions will automatically be harmless actions & good actions.

Please consider, is it when our mind is selfish that it can generate actions that can harm others?

On the other hand, is it when our mind is unselfish or selfless that it cannot generate actions that can harm others?

But yes, until our mind tastes the liberation & inevitability of anatta, it may seem 'cold' to view the misfortune of 'others' as anatta.

Kind regards

Thanks Element.

As I was driving home and thinking more on this topic, I had come to the conclusion that obviously no one who is enlightened is evil (and whether or not you have to be good to get there, or that turning good is a consequence of enlightenment doesnt really matter, thats just the way it is).

And, reflecting on the Buddha quotes provided by Aloka-D above, it further made sense to me that obviously you cannot be enlightened and do 'bad' things.

But, I still did not really understand WHY.

So, I came on here to ask deeper into, but you beat me to it Element!
Please consider, is it when our mind is selfish that it can generate actions that can harm others?

On the other hand, is it when our mind is unselfish or selfless that it cannot generate actions that can harm others? Those two questions answered that for me and bring it into perspective.

There is still sort-of a subquestion that still remains however... I now understand that an enlightened mind cannot be 'evil', and why. But, I still don't really understand why it necessarily has to "do good", and not just regard everything as "equal" or "neutral"?

Do you perhaps have more to add on to that?

Thanks

[Mmccqrtb]

Hi, Balgore. In one sense, human existence is a mere blink of an eye (less, really) on the cosmological time scale. Physically, practically all of human history has been lived out on a tiny, pale blue dot in the outskirts of a mundane galaxy, which is only one of an uncountable number of other galaxies. From that perspective, nothing we do makes any real difference, and cosmologists now predict that the universe will continue to expand forever with the temperature approaching absolute zero.

However, no-self doesn't mean no-thing. It means that what we really are is very unlike what we think ourselves to be. No divine spark or ghost in the machine or even a homunculus running things. We're fleeting and ephemeral, but not non-existent. The mind makes importance and value. The mind makes qualities. As far as we know so far, the human brain is the only one capable of such a refined recognition of the vastness of the universe. We may eventually find more intelligent life on other planets, but for now, we're it. That, we can say, makes human experience precious. Not inherently so, but to us, at least.

So, no, don't start killing people and going wild. Nothing is without consequence. Phenomena that arise now will condition an infinity of future conditions and phenomena. We don't really have control over it, but we can do our best to set up less suffering for future conditions and those ephemeral beings that will experience them. The qualities of goodwill and compassion that wish the best for those future beings elevate humankind, and are worthwhile, no matter how fleeting and tiny our species.

[ErubTiereedig]

Hrm... Well said Former Monk. Thanks. That really makes a lot of sense.

[dicemets]

But, I still don't really understand why it necessarily has to "do good", and not just regard everything as "equal" or "neutral"?

I suppose the enlightened mind has done the work to relieve itself of suffering & dissatisfaction.

As it has some expertise here, it is only natural the enlightened can help others do the same.

Kind regards

[2CNWXAqN]

If there is 'no-self' (or anatta), then do our actions really matter? Does anything we do really matter? "who" cares if I be mean to someone or go around killing tons of people? In the grand scheme of the universe, these actions, and their effects, wont 'mean' anything, and no 'one' personally is effected, since nothing has a 'self' anyway....

A personal understanding of "being good/doing good deeds"etc. is that these actions are only stepping stones on a Spiritual Path.
The first verse of the Dhammapada tells us that everything is mind-made. So before l can harm another l must first think about it,that is harm myself. As harming myself is not on the Buddhist Path l will not do this.
So by all means do good,but don't think of it as such,or even worse think of it as 'l'm on my way to Liberation'

[funnyPasds]

So by all means do good,but don't think of it as such,or even worse think of it as 'l'm on my way to Liberation'

True. Thanks Frank,

[N9NACzws]

To be compassionate is to be human. Suzuki Roshi adds that to meditate is to be human. It is just something we wish to do. It is natural. When you meditate you will find your heart opening naturally, as you find your thoughts and emotions linked to your ego less important. After a time you will want to keep the precepts - it's just what you want naturally, as your heart opens up and you become more open to people around you. You should just get down to setting a little time aside each day for meditation and in between try to be attentive to what you are doing in each moment.

[patuvammnogoo]

Ideas of good and bad are tricky, I like to think instead about being just and fair. Is it fair to rob a man of his possessions? Is it just to take someone's life? Even if we got to a state of total detachment, it seems that we would have extinguished whatever passion or ill-will that would have generated the desire in the first place.

[pupyississido]

If there is 'no-self' (or anatta), then do our actions really matter? Does anything we do really matter? "who" cares if I be mean to someone or go around killing tons of people? In the grand scheme of the universe, these actions, and their effects, wont 'mean' anything, and no 'one' personally is effected, since nothing has a 'self' anyway....
Going around killing is done when there is "I" in the mind

When the mind is empty of Self, there can be no selfishness, no vengeance, no anger or hatred

Only selfless kindness and peace