[oxinsnepe]

in light of the wide variety of buddhist sects and practices, are religious trappings essential to dharma?

[nuveem7070]

Hi inji, you have entitled the discussion thread ' core dharma ' and opened it with a question about ' religious trappings ', so I would like to hear what you consider to be core dharma, as I suggest it would help set the parameters of the discussion.

[Goodwin]

Hi andy, in my limited understanding, i think of core dhama as the four noble truths, the eightfold path, mindfulness and attachment to absolutely nothing (Buddhadasa), especially, the attachment to the idea of self.

I'm informed by "a handful of leaves" http://www.buddhanet.net/4noble1.htm. and the kalama sutta. i believe it's about the end of suffering.

i know Stephen Batchelor is not very popular on these forums but some of what he says resonates with me. I also consider Buddhadasa a minimalist when it comes to religious trappings, especially, when it comes to dogma, metaphysics and guru worship. of course, i need to sit more and talk less. the above is just a general overview but it's my general direction.

[P1international]

When I consider the great sages and mystics who have explored and mapped the multifarious byways of consciousness and its emancipation from delusion, most with greater application and dedication than me. I am reluctant to discard their formulas and routes without careful consideration.
I have in the past been arrogant to consider my limited view to be qualification enough to make decisions about what are simply 'trappings' or 'superstition' only to find with the advantage of hindsight how much more efficacious, rites, rituals, practices etc are with their inclusion.
I have to say that for me with my limited view I have too often misunderstood practices in both principal, application and result.

[Sydneyfonzi]

When I consider the great sages and mystics who have explored and mapped the multifarious byways of consciousness and its emancipation from delusion, most with greater application and dedication than me. I am reluctant to discard their formulas and routes without careful consideration.

fine rhetoric above, Ngagpa, but can you actually give some examples of where the great sages and mystics used rites & rituals as important constituants of their paths & routes?

thanks

[emuffette]

fine rhetoric above, Ngagpa, but can you actually give some examples of where the great sages and mystics used rites & rituals as important constituants of their paths & routes? Thanks Element.




Are you asking me to name particular rites/rituals that are used by (and are reported as being efficacious) and attributed to certain mystic or sages?

[WGRocky]

in light of the wide variety of buddhist sects and practices, are religious trappings essential to dharma?

If the condition of 'core teaching' is to quench Dukkha in this very existence, trappings are not essential, at least in my experience, inji.

[PrareeLor]

Thanks Element.




Are you asking me to name particular rites/rituals that are used by (and are reported as being efficacious) and attributed to certain mystic or sages?

Hi,

I hope that you dont mind if I jump in here a bit.

I can only speak from my own tradition of TB. There are a great many Rituals and "Rites" that are used to help us along the path. Fomaly taking Refuge , Vows of Personal liberation, Enpowernments and others are all part of what the Lamas laid out as a skillful means to end suffering. Marpa, Milerepa, Gampopa and many others set out these methoids in a very orderly sequence.

Of course there are other equaly valid Paths that do not use these means.

All the Best

[TOPERink]

I can only speak from my own tradition of TB. There are a great many Rituals and "Rites" that are used to help us along the path.

Yes Karma Yeshe. Some traditions use them as a aid and that is perfectly well when they are an aid. Also chanting after or before meditation helps to give a sense of community and friendship at the meditation hall.

[DuesTyr]

Thank you Karma Yeshe.
I concur with you.
However even on a more simple level we ritualise many aspects of our lives. Ritual is utilised by psychotherapists because the unconscious does not distinguish between ritual and reality. We ritualise rites of passage. In Buddhism we ritualise many many aspects of the path including taking refuge, taking vows, accepting alms the list goes on.
Is it essential to Dharma? I think I will have to say I suspect not! Is it skilful? I think it can be!
Much like a car is not essential to my journey today, after all I can walk 4 miles (if I had different circumstances due to age or infirmity it might be different) Do I throw away the car because it is not essential?

[stadiaKab]

Hi andy, in my limited understanding, i think of core dhama as the four noble truths, the eightfold path

Sounds fine to me.