[zzarratusstra]

Nagarjuna's Seventy Stanzas: 2 - 4

"All phenomena must have either self-existence or non-self-existence.

yes, the universe has non-self existence. the universe is not a self but it exists

All phenomena which are the subject of this treatise are similar to nirvana because all phenomena are devoid of inherent existence.

all phenomena are not similar to nirvana. nirvana is the unconditioned. it is the uncaused. nirvana inherently exists. it is independent

What is the reason for this? It is because the inherent existence of all phenomena is not to be found in causes, conditions, aggregations or individualities. Thus all phenomena are devoid of inherent existence and are empty."

Nirvana has inherent existence but is empty. although nirvana inherently exists, it is not a 'self'. it is not-self (anatta). it is empty of self (sunnata). the logic of Nagarjuna sounds questionable, in appearing to assert a synonomity between 'existence' and 'self'.

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if we look down from above, upon the swirling mass that is the universe, it can be seen to exist. although there are no conditioned things in that universe that have inherent existence, the swirling mass itself swirls, moves & changes ceaselessly

buddha taught nirvana inherently exists, because it is the uncaused. buddha taught the reality of conditionality (causes & effect), impermanence and unsatisfactoriness in regards to conditioned things inherently exists or "stands". buddha taught the non-selfhood of all things, including Nirvana, inherently exists or "stands"

if "not-self" did not inherently exist, then how could all things be not-self? this simple statement refutes the logic of Nagarjuna



Whether or not there is the arising of Tathagatas, this property stands — this regularity of the Dhamma, this orderliness of the Dhamma, this this/that conditionality (iddapaccayatta).

Paccaya Sutta Monks, whether or not there is the arising of Tathagatas, this property stands — this steadfastness of the Dhamma, this orderliness of the Dhamma: All processes are inconstant.

Whether or not there is the arising of Tathagatas, this property stands — this steadfastness of the Dhamma, this orderliness of the Dhamma: All processes are unsatisfactory.

Whether or not there is the arising of Tathagatas, this property stands — this steadfastness of the Dhamma, this orderliness of the Dhamma: All phenomena are not-self.

The Discourse on the Orderliness of the Dhamma