[amagmasia]

I have taken this quote from Brad Warner's Hardcore Zen blog. (Brad Warner is a 48 yr old American Zen priest with Dogen Sangha International)




"The idea that the "big boys in the Buddhist world" are somehow qualitatively better teachers than the less well-known ones is a very troubling notion to me. And I'm not talking about myself as an example of one of the less well-known teachers. I'm starting to fear that my growing popularity is making me ineffective as a teacher.

The rise of this new class of Mega Masters troubles me. Such teachers cannot possibly have direct contact with the massive numbers of students who claim them as their teachers. I met some people once who talked about feeling some kind of magic mojo when the Dalai Lama walked by them thirty feet away, deep in a crowd of fawning fans, surrounded by secret service guards. Such fantasies are extraordinarily damaging.

It's precisely the same kind of thing a fan feels when he gets to be near a celebrity he admires. I know I felt it when I got to meet Gene Simmons of KISS in person. But I didn't add to that feeling some kind of weird idea that my being in proximity to Gene Simmons conveyed some sort of spiritual shaktipat, or that I got a big ol' ZAP of pure Zen energy or some such nonsense.

When Genpo Roshi charges suckers $50,000 to have personal contact with him you'd better believe he's implying that some of his supposed enlightenment will rub off when they're close. I'm not sure I want any part of what rubs off of Genpo Roshi, though!

http://hardcorezen.blogspot.co.uk/20...naht-hanh.html



Any comments about the quote?


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[vaalmerruutel]

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit...n.html#iti-091
This was said by the Blessed One, said by the Arahant, so I have heard:
"Even if a monk, taking hold of my outer cloak, were to follow right behind Me, placing his feet in My footsteps,
yet if he were to be greedy for sensual pleasures, strong in his passions, malevolent in mind, corrupt in his resolves,

his mindfulness muddled, unalert, uncentered, his mind scattered, & his faculties uncontrolled, then he would be far from Me, and I from him.

Why is that? Because he does not see the Dhamma. Not seeing the Dhamma, he does not see Me.

"But even if a monk were to live one hundred leagues away, yet if he were to have no greed for sensual objects, were not strong in his passions, not malevolent in mind, uncorrupt in his resolves, his mindfulness established, alert,

centered, his mind at singleness, & his faculties well-restrained, then he would be near to Me, and I to him. Why is that? Because he sees the Dhamma. Seeing the Dhamma, he sees Me." Rinpoche and a student were conversing about another teacher, whose good qualities Rinpoche was praising.

Student: Rinpoche, Geshe-la helped me a lot. He gave me very good advice on guru devotion.

Rinpoche: Really, what was it?

Student: He told me, “Even you are not physically near your guru all the time, if you feel close and have devotion, you will constantly receive his blessings. To feel close, you must constantly remember his kindness.”

Rinpoche: I think that’s from his own experience. I don’t think that came from a text.

Student: Also, I told him that I only wanted to practice guru devotion. I didn’t want to meditate on anything else, and I asked if that was all right. He said, “If you put guru devotion on one side of a scale and all the other topics of the lam-rim on the other side, guru devotion will always weigh more.”

Rinpoche: Really? He said that?
One time a student asked His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche about this.
I think she was feeling sad because of not being close to Lama Yeshe.

Then His Holiness gave this analogy: If you plant a flower, as long as it’s not covered by stones and there are no obstructions, then even though the sun is very far away, the flower will receive everything it needs to grow.

Student: Yes, Rinpoche. It makes sense.

Rinpoche: I think what Geshe-la told you is expressing his own experience.
If your mind is good, you always feel close to the guru.

If you make a mistake and do something wrong, then even though you are physically close, you feel kind of distant. It is like that. On Guru Devotion

On 'celebrity gurus and celebrity disciples'?
Take a bow, the night is over,
This masquerade is getting older,
Lights are low, the curtains down,
There's no one here...

[bMc8F9ZI]

I like Brad Warner. He doesn't seem to be "faking it."

And, although I'm no expert on "Mega Masters", if Genpo Roshi is charging people $50,000 dollars to touch him, then that is actually very troubling. I always felt that enlightenment was primarily a personal journey, that other people play parts in. So to create this hero worship about modern day teachers seems counter-productive.

[Innockcroff]

I agree with Brad Warner's reflexion.

Don't know why but I have the tendency to run away from "Mega Masters" of any kind. Dislike crowded places or people thinking all the time the same way. I like the very personal contact and the intimacy from that. Practice out of this is what has worked with me.

[Cogebrego]

Brad Warner's view is certainly 'Hinayana'

[f6HLLFcw]

I presume "Mega Masters" are ordained Buddhist monks of various persuasions.

What is a nega master.

Why does anyone need a mega master.

Why does anyone need a master of any description.

All I need is the Dhamma.

Peace

Gerry

[exeftWabreava]

I presume "Mega Masters" are ordained Buddhist monks of various persuasions.

Not necessarily. The late Chogyam Trungpa, a Tibetan Buddhist teacher, was considered a 'mega master' by his students and by people who read his books - and he was married. (He gave back his monks robes when he went to live in the west)

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[SarSerceSaice]

I was definitely concerned about this on a retreat I've just got back from with Thich Nhat Hanh. However, I was pleasantly surprised at the complete lack of 'guru worship' there.

On the last day, there was a moment at the end where some of the children and organisers were brought onto the stage with Thich Nhat Hanh, monks and nuns to be thanked by the laity. Before this got going, he quietly left the back of stage without a word, and once the others had gathered, a beautiful song was sung called 'Dear friends'.

[asharbiq]

I was definitely concerned about this on a retreat I've just got back from with Thich Nhat Hanh. However, I was pleasantly surprised at the complete lack of 'guru worship' there.

On the last day, there was a moment at the end where some of the children and organisers were brought onto the stage with Thich Nhat Hanh, monks and nuns to be thanked by the laity. Before this got going, he quietly left the back of stage without a word, and once the others had gathered, a beautiful song was sung called 'Dear friends'.

Were the people doing the retreat able to have private interviews with TNH about their practice, JR ?

[Aafimoq]

This is from another part of Brad Warner's Blog :


The idea that people sell spirituality as a commodity bugs me. I don't mind people who sell books about spirituality. That's fine. Or books about their own experience of a practice. Also great. But what a lot of these guys are selling is clearly not that. They advertise themselves as being able to grant you enlightenment, realization, peace of mind, or whatever, for a price. But they can't do that. Nobody can do that. If someone really could, that would be great.

But you cannot buy that kind of thing. Just like you can't buy genuine love. Even though you can buy a night with a very good prostitute, some of whom are adept at the "girlfriend experience" which means they can simulate genuine love. But that costs you extra. And a lot of what I see advertised sounds to me like a Zen version of the "girlfriend experience." That's what Genpo Roshi is selling with his personalized five-day retreats for only five people in a luxury hotel.

Also the idea that we must not question anyone as pure and lovely as Thich Naht Hanh or Reggie Ray or whoever worries me. When we lose our ability to be critical, we're stepping into a very dangerous area. We're no longer looking at things in a balanced way. That's when trouble begins.


http://hardcorezen.blogspot.co.uk/20...1_archive.html


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[Wmshyrga]

I like Brad Warner and he's definitely right about this. I particularly like what you quoted from him the last post Aloka-D.

[DailyRingtone]

Why do people need all these masters, gurus etc? From my experience most of the masters/gurus are self proclaimed. The Buddah never proclaimed himself anything but a teacher of the dhamma.

Peace

Gerry

[EliteFranceska]

From my experience most of the masters/gurus are self proclaimed

I think people can get the title 'master' or 'guru' in different ways. Sometimes it can be announced by their own teachers after a length of time of study and practice.

It can also happens through official 'tulku' birth followed by intensive instruction in childhood and adolescence - as in the Tibetan Buddhist system. (and this status is strengthened with the specific practice of 'Guru devotion' by their students, mentioned by plwk in #2)

People can also be proclaimed 'master' or 'guru' by their own followers, especially those who have extensive PR and media coverage, videos etc and who write (or have their students put together for them) popular books.

I don't know of any Buddhist 'masters' who are self proclaimed, apart from maybe one or two people who might post on the internet. We had someone who joined here once and then announced that he was a "Buddha" !

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[Assauraarguck]

Were the people doing the retreat able to have private interviews with TNH about their practice, JR ?

Ooh, I've no idea. I'm sure I saw him talking to lay people after his morning talks, whether they were interviews or not, I don't know.

I do know individuals were able to have private consultations with the monastics. It was stressed that due to limited time, they encouranged only people who felt they were really having difficulties. I suppose, rather than people who wanted to ask non dharma related questions or chit-chat.

[Afigenatjola]

This is from another part of Brad Warner's Blog :

Also the idea that we must not question anyone as pure and lovely as Thich Naht Hanh or Reggie Ray or whoever worries me. When we lose our ability to be critical, we're stepping into a very dangerous area. We're no longer looking at things in a balanced way. That's when trouble begins.


http://hardcorezen.blogspot.co.uk/20...1_archive.html

.

I definitely agree with this point on TNH, as soon as someone is seen as a 'figurehead' or 'leader' of a particular Buddhist tradition, things can easily become unbalanced.

[DumbNelmcrece]

I agree. People take the opinions of those they respect far too seriously. People feel they have to agree with everything being said or they risk...uhm...something? Honestly, I don't fully understand the mindset of not questioning what you are told.

I suppose they don't want their world view threatened. But being content with what one already knows seems like such a boring way to live.

[epPtsDno]

Related: Kumare "American filmmaker Vikram Gandhi made up a guru character and a phony religion, then filmed a documentary as he developed a following. The result raises questions about belief and self." Link goes to a five-minute video blurb from Time Magazine.