[wMceqj7F]

Howdy,

What is the importance of emptiness in Buddhism?

Thanking you in advance,

[Biassasecumma]

What I teach now as before, O monks, is suffering and the cessation of suffering.

MN 22 So then, bhikkhus, the holy life is led not for, gain, honour and fame, not for the endowment of virtues, not for the endowment of concentration, not for the endowment of knowledges and vision. Bhikkhus, it is for the unshakeable release of mind that is the essence and end (fulfilment) of the holy life.

MN 29 Insofar as it is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self, thus it is said, that the world is empty. And what is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self? The eye is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self. Forms... Eye-consciousness... Eye-contact is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self. The ear is empty...The nose is empty...The tongue is empty...The body is empty...The intellect is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self. Ideas... Intellect-consciousness... Intellect-contact is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self. Thus it is said that the world is empty.

MN 35.85

In the same way, monks, the eye is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit... The ear... The nose... The tongue... The body... The intellect is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit... Whatever arises in dependence on intellect-contact, experienced either as pleasure, as pain, or as neither-pleasure-nor-pain, that too is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit.

SN 35.101

[BamSaitinypap]

I could be wrong here, but I think it's importance lies in developing non-attachment. I imagine the two go hand in hand.

Chai yen

[Kayacterype]

you are an invaluable asset, Element

thank you for posting the following:

In the same way, monks, the eye is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit... The ear... The nose... The tongue... The body... The intellect is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit... Whatever arises in dependence on intellect-contact, experienced either as pleasure, as pain, or as neither-pleasure-nor-pain, that too is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit.

SN 35.101

Whatever arises in dependence on intellect-contact,
(known through the six sense bases)

experienced either as pleasure, as pain, or as neither-pleasure-nor-pain,
(suffering)

that too is not yours: let go of it.

(be mindful not to cling to it with knowing that is not yours, otherwise it will be the cause for future suffering)

Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit.



Thanks again, element, you provide the exact sutta that 'i have been looking for'

Thanks Again, Element

[strongjannabiz]

This statement Whatever arises in dependence on intellect-contact,
(known through the six sense bases)

experienced either as pleasure, as pain, or as neither-pleasure-nor-pain,
(suffering)

that too is not yours: let go of it. is such a nonsense that any body knows very well that, a kidney pain belongs to the one whoever feels it. And this pain, no matter what you do, can not be let go. Because it will not go, so owner of the pain shall suffer. Here please show me how this pain will be gone...No matter what you do pain stays as long as kidney stone moves...

I see that here some statements are just nonsense. And we are listening these nonsense statements... This is suffering too.

Some body recently said that ''bodhisattvas do not suffer'' this is also a nonse because every human suffers either Buddha or any other being can not stop it...Physical suffering say a kidney pain is a reality. Bodhisattvas certainly suffer if others have suffering...

Lets all be mindfull,

[Unlinozistimi]

The experience of the pain of the kidney stone, which has been likened to the pains of labour in childbirth, is real - the pain will go when the stone is removed from the ureter just as the pains of labour will end when the baby is born.
The suffering is our response and attitude to the pain experience.

The intention of the Bodhisattva vow is that seeing someone in pain, as well as seeing someone suffer, we will do what we can to help ( and for no moment here am I suggesting that only someone who has taken this vow would do that, or will do it better than someone who has not !!! ).

Often our ability to help is limited and may not be wanted - unless you are a surgeon there is not much that you can do to help remove the stone, for example.

Telling someone in pain with a kidney stone that suffering is optional is not going to help in an acute situation.

Also, using your example, if you are easily distressed yourself by seeing others in pain and the person asks you to stay the best thing you could do is find an alternate support person for them.

It is all about our own actions and intentions.

[DaleJrGirl]

This statement is such a nonsense that any body knows very well that, a kidney pain belongs to the one whoever feels it. And this pain, no matter what you do, can not be let go. Because it will not go, so owner of the pain shall suffer. Here please show me how this pain will be gone...No matter what you do pain stays as long as kidney stone moves...

Bothi, pain is not the same as mental suffering. You can not get ride of pain but being into pain you can not have mental suffering because of it.

It is taught in the teachings of Buddha.

I see that here some statements are just nonsense. And we are listening these nonsense statements... When things are seen without wisdom it seem nonsense. It is nonsense when Dhamma is not known.

This is suffering too. Yes, because Dhamma is not correctly seen.

Some body recently said that ''bodhisattvas do not suffer'' ... and I agree with what has recently said by "somebody".

A true Bodhisattva should not suffer. There is no reason for that. His/her mind is in the way of selflessness. An average human being who wish to help others, certainly, will suffer despite his or her good will.

He or she craves and clings to a self or a doer; imposes to others his/her personal view about "being helped" and everybody suffers.

The example of Mother Theresa given here and the quotes of her thoughts are a good example of what is not a Boddhisatva.

Nobody can be truly happy receiving help from other that suffers too. From other that do not know true and everlasting happiness.

True help come form those who abide in the four Brahma Viharas. Those that share true enduring happiness.

[TerriLS]

...a kidney pain belongs to the one whoever feels it. And this pain, no matter what you do, can not be let go. Because it will not go, so owner of the pain shall suffer. Here please show me how this pain will be gone...No matter what you do pain stays as long as kidney stone moves...

I see that here some statements are just nonsense. And we are listening these nonsense statements... This is suffering too.

Some body recently said that ''bodhisattvas do not suffer'' this is also a nonse because every human suffers either Buddha or any other being can not stop it...Physical suffering say a kidney pain is a reality. Bodhisattvas certainly suffer if others have suffering...

hello Bothi

buddhism points out our suffering is contained in certain modes of thinking (rather than in painful feeling)

with metta

Element


The Noble Truth of the Cessation of Suffering is this: It is the complete cessation of that very craving, giving it up, relinquishing it, liberating oneself from it and detaching oneself from it.

Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta: Setting in Motion the Wheel of Truth ****

"What, bhikkhus, is the Nibbana-element with residue left? Here a bhikkhu is an arahant, one whose taints are destroyed, the holy life fulfilled, who has done what had to be done, laid down the burden, attained the goal, destroyed the fetters of being, completely released through final knowledge. However, his five sense faculties remain unimpaired, by which he still experiences what is agreeable and disagreeable and feels pleasure and pain. It is the extinction of attachment, hate and delusion in him that is called the Nibbana element with residue left.
***
Here, ruler of the gods, a bhikkhu has heard that nothing is worth clinging to. When a bhikkhu has heard nothing is worth clinging to, he directly knows everything; having directly known everything, he fully understands everything; having fully understood everything, whatever feeling he feels, whether pleasant or painful or neither-painful-nor-pleasant, he abides contemplating impermanence in those feelings, contemplating fading away, contemplating cessation [of suffering], contemplating relinquishment. Contemplating thus, he does not cling to anything in the world. When he does not cling, he is not agitated. When he is not agitated, he personally attains Nibbana. He understands: 'What had to be done has been done'. Briefly, it is in this way, ruler of the gods, that a bhikkhu is liberated in the destruction of craving, one who has reached the ultimate end.

Culatanhasankhaya Sutta ***
"On seeing a form with the eye, he is not passionate for it if it is pleasing; he is not angry at it if it is displeasing. He lives with attention to body established, with an immeasurable mind and he understands realistically the deliverance of mind and deliverance by wisdom wherein those evil unwholesome states cease without remainder. Having abandoned favouring and opposing, whatever feeling he feels - whether pleasant or painful or neither-pleasant-nor-painful - he does not delight in that feeling, welcome it, [resist it] or remain holding to it. As he does not do so, delight in feelings ceases in him. From the cessation of his delight comes cessation of clinging; from the cessation of clinging, the cessation of becoming; from the cessation of becoming, the cessation of birth; from the cessation of birth, ageing-&-death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair cease. Thus is the cessation of this entire mass of suffering.

Mahàtanhàsankhaya Sutta ***

But when the Blessed One had entered upon the rainy season, there arose in him a severe illness and sharp and deadly pains came upon him. And the Blessed One endured them mindfully, clearly comprehending and unperturbed.

Mahaparinibbana Sutta

[Faigokilix]

I could be wrong here, but I think it's importance lies in developing non-attachment. I imagine the two go hand in hand.

Chai yen

I am certain yuou are right. It's an emptying out of defilements that result from both cravings and attachments.

There is a writing on this theme by a monk in Thailand, originally in Thai, but with the Englsih title "Cleansing the Human Mind: A Purification of the Thought Processes." It identifies a number of negative thought patterns we inadvertently invite upon ourselves and the futility of dwelling in them.

[JacksHH]

a kidney pain belongs to the one whoever feels it. And this pain, no matter what you do, can not be let go. Because it will not go, so owner of the pain shall suffer. Here please show me how this pain will be gone...No matter what you do pain stays as long as kidney stone moves...

good point to ponder

take 'the pain you have' (kidney pain or any other pain that you have) now

mindfully see what happens to it

does 'the pain' stay same, or does 'it' increase or does 'it' decrease?

mindfully see 'do you think (attached to) your 'earlier pain' or the 'pain now' or the 'pain which will come next moment/future'

do you know that by doing the above 'you are doing insight meditation'?

whatever you understand/experience by doing so would be your own insight not something you have read or listened


i hope Element would not think of banning members if possible
we all have fault and do wrong things because still we all are deluded

[deermealec]

i hope Element would not think of banning members if possible
we all have fault and do wrong things because still we all are deluded

Upekka, as you request

[Zzvukttz]

i hope Element would not think of banning members if possible
we all have fault and do wrong things because still we all are deluded

Hi upekka,

I do understand your concerns. However all the circumstances surrounding a suspension, if one should occur at this website at any time, are not always seen or fully understood by visitors to the site.

Additionally, sometimes the administrators may also intervene and suspend members for varying periods of time, or permanently.

Thank you for posting in the discussions at BWB, Upekka, I always enjoy reading your posts.

with metta,

Aloka


General note for everyone

Any further queries about specific matters of this nature should be conducted with me privately by e-mail or PM rather than in topics on the forums. (see Code of Conduct for the website)

Many thanks

[Fededorbprago]

Hello Bothi,

It has been said that "pain is inevitable, suffering is optional"

Understanding the difference between pain and suffering is essential for understanding the Buddha's teaching in my opinion.

Regards,
Bundokji

[bppstorr]

I am certain yuou are right. It's an emptying out of defilements that result from both cravings and attachments.

There is a writing on this theme by a monk in Thailand, originally in Thai, but with the Englsih title "Cleansing the Human Mind: A Purification of the Thought Processes." It identifies a number of negative thought patterns we inadvertently invite upon ourselves and the futility of dwelling in them.

Thankyou Desert Don. Plus the Thai writing you mention definitely needs checking out I think! Thanks!

Chai yen

[EvaQWmrm]

But when the Blessed One had entered upon the rainy season, there arose in him a severe illness and sharp and deadly pains came upon him. And the Blessed One endured them mindfully, clearly comprehending and unperturbed.

Mahaparinibbana Sutta

[BoarmomorurrY]

Hi Bothi

One important aspect of emptiness in Buddhism is that from emptiness comes change, if everything was not essentially empty of solid identity it would not be able to change, so the truth of emptiness as the Buddha points to it, is in the ever changing reality around you

[avavavava]

Some body recently said that ''bodhisattvas do not suffer'' this is also a nonse because every human suffers either Buddha or any other being can not stop it...Physical suffering say a kidney pain is a reality. Bodhisattvas certainly suffer if others have suffering...

That's right. All human beings suffer physical pain. Buddhism cannot cure physical pain. However, it is worthwhile mentioning that it is commonly accepted that parinibbana is the end of all suffering (physical and psychological). What is directly verifiable is that the Buddha taught a path to end mental suffering which arises due to greed, hatred and delusion. This is a verifiable fact. For physical pain it is best to see a doctor.

[doogiehoussi]

Dear Element,

Please kindly read the following; Originally Posted by Element

In the same way, monks, the eye is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit... The ear... The nose... The tongue... The body... The intellect is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit... Whatever arises in dependence on intellect-contact, experienced either as pleasure, as pain, or as neither-pleasure-nor-pain, that too is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit.

SN 35.101 The pain, say a kidney pain, or a cancer patient's pain, or any other physical pain, lets assume that is not mine, how one will let it go?

When you defend your faith, it should be logical...

Dear Element is now trying to cover the truth by stating following; buddhism points out our suffering is contained in certain modes of thinking (rather than in painful feeling) Above both statements belong to the same person. But each is contardictory to the other!

Dear Element, suffering is suffering. This includes all the sufferings. Then Buddha was not right. If Buddha has had distinquished this suffering deviding into two groups, thenn I would buy it...

With metta,

[JohnTruels]

I could be wrong here, but I think it's importance lies in developing non-attachment. I imagine the two go hand in hand.

Chai yen

Dear Madina-Spike,

Attachment in many instances helps people go further. If Edison did not attach himself to the lighting bulp, we were all be at the darknes at nights... So whatever Buddha has said sometimes may not be correct...

With metta,

[Hedkffiz]

If Edison did not attach himself to the lighting bulp, we were all be at the darknes at nights...

He did good work, as many do and are rightly praised for it. He didn't attain liberation though. So if you are pleased with your light-bulb thank Edison. If you want liberation, look into Buddhadharma.

So whatever Buddha has said sometimes may not be correct... Looks like you have created an external Buddha of straw, that you can set alight to - not nearly as useful as a light-bulb though.