[seekfrieddy]

I have no idea what you mean with this sect talk, Element.

Just as having no idea what sabbe sankhara dukkha means, Daverupa.

[68AttendGem]

...it seems saṅkhāra is worth understanding (sabbe saṅkhāra duḥkha), because these phenomena are involved with how dukkha arises...

the Pali states that which is impermanent is dukkha (unsatisfactory); that which is unsatisfactory is not-self

these Three Characteristics, first mentioned in the Buddha's 2nd Sermon, are inseparable

sankhara here does not mean the play of sankhara khandha (mental concocting; thought conception)

sankhara here means anything compounded, put together by causes & conditions, thus subject to impermanence, such as a rock, subject to cohension & erosion

for example, MN 43 mentions the life faculty or ayu sankhara. when perception & feeling end, there remains the ayu sankhara (which is unrelated to mind)

thus the phrase sabbe sankhara anicca refers to all conditioned things, including rocks, planets, galaxies and things

for example, rocks, planets, galaxies and things are external ayatana (sense objects). they are part of "The All". but this is "All" is dependent upon consciousness (vinnana) for its appearance. this "All" is not created by sankhara khandha (thought formation)

now i sit at the beach. my mind can see palm trees moving in the wind & small waves on the surface of the ocean moving north-west. also, a small lizard has just chirped, momentarily

the impermanence of the wind, palm trees, ocean surface & lizard chirp is not a creation of sankhara. it is not the mind creating this impermanence

it is not the mind causing the physical body to age & food eaten to break down in the disgestive system

as it is not the mind creating this impermanence, it is also not the mind creating this unsatisfactoriness & not-self

kind regards



Monks, whether or not there is the arising of Tathagatas [whether or not it is cognised], this property stands — this steadfastness of the Dhamma, this orderliness of the Dhamma: All processes (sankhara) are inconstant. All processes (sankhara) are unsatisfactory. All phenomena (dhamma) are not-self.

The Tathagata directly awakens to that, breaks through to that. Directly awakening & breaking through to that, he declares it, teaches it, describes it, sets it forth. He reveals it, explains it & makes it plain

Dhamma-Niyama (Law) Sutta
saṅkhāra: This term has, according to its context, different shades of meaning, which should be carefully distinguished.

(I) To its most frequent usages (s. foll. 1-4) the general term 'formation' may be applied, with the qualifications required by the context. This term may refer either to the act of 'forming or to the passive state of 'having been formed' or to both.

1. As the 2nd link of the formula of dependent origination, (paṭiccasamuppāda, q.v.), saṅkhāra has the active aspect, 'forming...activity...of body (kāya-s.), speech (vacī-s.) or mind (citta- or mano-s.). This definition occurs, e.g. at S. XII, 2, 27.... In other passages, in the same context, s. is defined by reference to (a) meritorious kamma-formations (puññābhisaṅkhāra), (b) demeritorious k. (apuññabhisaṅkhāra), (c) imperturbable k. (āneñjābhisaṅkhāra), e.g. in S. XII, 51; D. 33. This threefold division covers...activity in all spheres of existence: the meritorious...formations extend to the sensuous and the fine-material sphere, the demeritorious ones only to the sensuous sphere, and the 'imperturbable' only to the immaterial sphere.

2. The aforementioned three terms, kāya-, vacī- and citta-s. are sometimes used in quite a different sense, namely as (1) bodily function, i.e. in-and-out-breathing (e.g. M. 10), (2) verbal function, i.e. thought-conception and discursive thinking, (3) mental-function, i.e. feeling and perception (e.g. M. 44). See nirodhasamāpatti.

3. It also denotes the 4th group of existence (saṅkhārakkhandha), and includes all 'mental formations' whether they belong to 'kammically forming' consciousness or not. See khandha, Tab. II. and S. XXII, 56, 79.

4. It occurs further in the sense of anything formed (saṅkhata, q.v.) and conditioned, and includes all things whatever in the world, all phenomena of existence. This meaning applies, e.g. to the well-known passage, "All formations are impermanent... subject to unsatisfactoriness" (sabbe saṅkhāra aniccā ... dukkhā). In that context, however, s. is subordinate to the still wider and all-embracing term dhamma (thing); for dhamma includes also the Unformed or Unconditioned Element (asaṅkhata-dhātu), i.e. Nibbāna (e.g. in sabbe dhammā anattā, "all things are without a self").

(II) Saṅkhāra also means sometimes 'volitional effort', e.g. in the formula of the roads to power (iddhi-pāda, q.v.); in sasaṅkhāra- and asaṅkhāra-parinibbāyī (s. Anāgāmī, q.v.); and in the Abhidhamma terms asaṅkhārika- (q.v.) and sasaṅkhārika-citta, i.e. without effort = spontaneously, and with effort = prompted.

In Western literature, in English as well as in German, saṅkhāra is sometimes mistranslated by 'subconscious tendencies' or similarly (e.g Prof Beckh: "unterbewußte Bildekräfte," i.e. subconscious formative forces). This misinterpretation derives perhaps from a similar usage in non-Buddhist Sanskrit literature, and is entirely inapplicable to the connotations of the term in Pāḷi Buddhism, as listed above under I, 1-4. For instance, within the dependent origination, s. is neither subconscious nor a mere tendency, but is a fully conscious and active karmic volition. In the context of the 5 groups of existence (s. above I, 3), a very few of the factors from the group of mental formations (saṅkhārakkhandha) are also present as concomitants of subconsciousness (s. Tab. I-III), but are of course not restricted to it, nor are they mere tendencies.

Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines by NYANATILOKA MAHATHERA

[Nashhlkq]

'The six external media should be known.' Thus was it said. In reference to what was it said? The form-medium, the sound-medium, the aroma-medium, the flavor-medium, the tactile sensation-medium, the dhammas-medium. 'The six external media should be known.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said. This is the second sextet.

The Six Sextets Monks, I will teach you the All. Listen & pay close attention. I will speak.

"As you say, lord," the monks responded.

The Blessed One said: "What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, mind base & dhammas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say: 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range."

Sabba Sutta: The All Dependent on eye & forms, eye-consciousness arises. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition, there is feeling. What one feels, one perceives (labels in the mind). What one perceives, one thinks about. What one thinks about, one proliferates (papañceti) . Based on what a person proliferates, the perceptions & categories of proliferation (papañcasaññāsaṅkhā) assail him/her with regard to past, present & future forms cognizable via the eye.

Dependent on ear & sounds, ear-consciousness arises...

Dependent on nose & aromas, nose-consciousness arises...

Dependent on tongue & flavors, tongue-consciousness arises...

Dependent on body & tactile sensations, body-consciousness arises...

Dependent on mind base & dhammas, mind-consciousness arises. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition, there is feeling. What one feels, one perceives (labels in the mind). What one perceives, one thinks about. What one thinks about, one proliferates. Based on what a person proliferates, the perceptions & categories of proliferation assail him/her with regard to past, present & future dhammas cognizable via the mind base.

Madhupindika Sutta It is shown above "The All" is not a creation of thought formation (sankhara khandha) or thought proliferation (papanca).

This also shows sankhara in Dependent Origination does not refer to the activity of sankhara khandha described in MN 18.

MN 44 states the kaya sankhara, one of the 2nd conditions of Dependent Origination, is the in & out breathing. The in & out breathing is not a creation of sankhara khandha (thought formation).

Kind regards

In-&-out breaths are the bodily fabricator (kaya sankhara).

MN 44

[TSVIDeo]

There are no words for it. If I try, I will make a mistake and lead others astray.

But... in terms of meditation advice, I personally find that every pain, tension and barrier "I" have experienced has had clinging as a proximate cause. And when I've let go of any of feelings, perceptions, & intentions, more peace and was experienced, even to the point of blissful vibration, singleness and harmony. But there are so many years of habitual attachment, clinging, building up and reaction, that without constant abandonment, constant relaxation, and persistent mindfulness, this ball of thread will be hard to unwind completely.

[Yb4bulVR]

"I" try to be careful when discerning others progress by words alone. This is why "I" tried to use "I" in parenthesis. But I am not perfect, and I'm a little impatient with dotting every little context. I figure people will get the jist of it. The I is just a collection of the so called heaps. "If you ever have a direct experience of the stilling of the 6 sense bases and then arise to only the 6th anybody would know for themselves that there is no sense of I without the supporting 5 senses. Further, there is neither complete perception. When each sense base comes back one at a time through intent and investigation, it's not possible to believe in a "globule," a "mass" or a universal unity of selfhood. The self seems to "be" due to the interaction between the interface of distinct spheres of mental and bodily apparatus.

Also, if anyone has the experience of mental projection without bodily form, they will not be able to believe that the bodily form is a self either. But, it's not enough.

I apologize for being tentative, but I've seen what jumping in without mindfulness can attract from others. Argumentativeness, confusion and self hood are just a few words and a click away. And attracting unwholesome responses is not helpful to anyone. But since you asked, I chose to see that as a prompt to share. I remember reading that even the Tathagata did not offer a teaching until he was asked 3 times on several occasions. And I am still a novice.

"Although this is still not 100% true. When the Buddha was old & dying, with food poisoning, the pain his mind experienced did not have clinging as a proximate cause"

Right, but What I've read is that the Buddha had already accomplished the Arahat Path knowledge by then, so clinging was not possible for him, neither was suffering as a mood in his mind. "Knowledge of Equanimity Toward Formations": the 11th vipasana attainment separates painful feeling from painful consciousness. Many Acariyas also freely confirm that they stilled most excruciating pain with mindfulness and concentration on pain.

But I am not that yet. So untill "I" attain that phala, I will still wrestle and see clinging as the source of suffering, as the Buddha has explained for us.

[agolutuaddiff]

One could simply ask, that if no-self, no attachment, and impermanence prevail then what is it that becomes enlightened?

We practice both Samatha and Vipassana at mind. So, the mind is enlightened.

Upon enlightenment, the mind drops attachment in five aggregates (including the mind itself). The enlightened one, who is alive, has to stay with five aggregates but have no attachment in them. (So, he/she can think, and does not stop thinking. But his/her thinking is not due to desire/attachment.) He/she could still be painful at his/her body and will die, but will not have suffer at mind. He/she will use his/her five aggregates in the rest of life for benefits of the other people due to his/her wisdon, not due to desire/attachment.