[JesexhiSeeces]

Hello,

The new Buddha Memorial Center is attracting a lot of publicity here. No one I've spoken to is against the veneration of the tooth relic contained inside, although a few have criticized the amount of money spent on the center (an estimated US$300million; Foguangshan isn't saying). As a Westerner with Protestant Christian roots, anything that smacks of idolatry (be it Taoist, Buddhist of folk religion) seems odd. Also, the center itself seems grandiose, as if the Venerable Master Hsing Yun is trying to build a memorial to himself. Just a few thoughts. Some articles on the center here:

http://www.daylife.com/photo/09er1US...ylife&q=Taiwan
http://www.guidegecko.com/taiwan/mus...er/p,608189728
http://australiansangha.org/australi...morial-center/

Good day,

bigleaf

[snova]

Hi Bigleaf,

I talked to a friend about this. And her point was that for 'advanced' Buddhists, the center is probably like a museum to them. But for vast majority of the populace, who do not have the time or energy or inclination to study the sutras, something for them to direct their 'faith' may not be a bad thing. Because with constant exposure, one day, they might want to learn more about Buddha's teaching.

BTW, I have never been to the main monastery of CHUNG TAI CHAN, but my wife had. She said that its grandeur displeases her. I guess she, like most Buddhists, thinks that monks should live an austere life. But my question to her is why should she let a building affect her emotion.

[heltduell]

1. Strange...that's the kind of thinking that KKK subscribes to too...anything that doesn't fit in their worldview is therefore anathema and un-KKKish... back when 'blacks' can't sit on the same bus or eat in the same restaurant as the 'whites' because they were uh black to begin with? And some nationalistic Muslims in my country think that Christians are such infidels and deserve to be marginalised despite their own Quran stating clearly that they are part of 'People of the Book' and proudly declare the latest version of divine revelation and that the Bible is not? So, what do I do with all these assertions as a Buddhist? Hmmm...

2. 'Idolatry'... interesting word... isn't self bigotry another graver graven image placed before God than say, a piece of tooth?
The toughest of admonitions from Jesus were reserved for the Pharisees and the Sanhedrin of his day, no?
Has one ever heard that Buddhists are 'ideal worshippers' but never idol worshippers?

Yeah Moses got his Ten Commandments that spoke about graven images aka 'idolatry' but guess what?
They also built the Ark of the Covenant with images of cherubims on top, no?
Now, on cursory reading, am I to suppose that God contradicted himself on this matter or was it the selective interpretation of some Christians? And which interpretation shall I subscribe to when it comes to Protestants? Choosing from some 20-30,000 denominations is a daunting thought...

Was it wrong to have these images per se or to check the attitude and motivation when having these objects?
Similarly, do you keep photos of your family members and loves ones? What are they all for? To replace God or merely as memorabilias of good times and family harmony? Does one own a car to transport people and goods from A to B or use it to ram down others?
Hence the importance of context and perspective...

3. So for Buddhists, the Bodhi Tree, the Dharma Wheel, relics, iconography and etc are all used as teaching and practice expedients.
For some who are more advanced in their practice, none of those are needed, for the true realisation of the Teaching comes from one's practice and insight of the Teaching itself rather than hankering after these. But can everyone come to this formless level?
Hence, assuming what's best for me is always best for others or that my perception of what things and people should be that's how it should be...wasn't it the Catholics back then who expected the sun to revolve around the planet? It's just plain arrogance and ignorance to do so.

Yes, when people take the teaching aids to replace the Teaching, then in that sense, 'idolatry' occurs because then they forget what was the original resolve and practice and it unleases a series of unwholesome causes and conditions unfavourable for a cultivator's mind and life, not because it offends a creator's ego somewhere out there. One must never confuse the individual acts of piety as the standard of a particular tenet, they don't correspond all the time, even if they can quote scriptures a toilet roll's worth.

Being human, some need these as reminders to practice, so long as they are well understood, like to cross over from this to the other shore, one uses a raft and when done, the raft is cast aside.

Another thing to note is that all expressions of paying 'veneration' or respect must be understood by what motivates them to do such.
I never assume that when a man bends low, that it means he is praying, for all ya know, he may just be having a backache. Pays to check with him.

Showing respect to a Teacher and the myriad representations of him varies from one culture to another, some more extravagant, some simplistic, but at the end of the day, the motivation is what counts rather the outward form. We still live in this conventional world, so conventions are still useful in communicating ideas. My late paternal grandparents, when they were early converts to Christianity, thought that Jesus ate with spoon and fork with plate and discarded the usual bowl and chopsticks. It took some time to help them to correct some misperceptions.

4. Big structures. Which religion in this world doesn't have it?
Even Protestant Christians have fantastic evangelistic mega churches that can seat capacities of up until 10,000 people at one time isn't it?
And the fantastic old cathedrals in N. America and Europe of the older Protestant denominations? What was all that about?
Why the size and facilities? Nothing else to do with wads of hard earned sponsorship cash from the faithful or just simply a far sighted vision for anticipated growth and investment for future generations as a living legacy and testament of outreach work?

This is the typical human frailty isn't it? It's always the big and visionary ones that get the rap for size but not the 'church mouse' for status quo, until and unless the building gets sold off like what many churches faced back in the 70s and 80s?
Criticisms? Who in this world has never been criticised? Not even Jesus and the Church were spared isn't it?
Neither has the Buddha and the Sangha either...nor Mother Teresa either... but they moved on didn't they?

5. How much of the Ven Master Xing Yun that one has personally known and met up front?
Does one know his life story and how he built Fo Guang Shan from nothing to something as an impoverished mendicant monk yet he continues wearing robes full of holes and lives frugally until today? He had everything less for himself that others may have more. Does one know how the entire organisation is structured and what are their worldwide mission and vision for Buddhism in general and Taiwan? If not, contact them and find out for yourself. Assuming is the last thing anyone wants to do...

Casting unfounded aspersions on someone and something that one has not any experience with but based on a few articles is kinda like expecting the gospel truth from a Hollywood mag on celebrities huh?

How do I know? I have been with them for many years, worked with their people as a volunteer in many of their spiritual and charitable programs in my country and even been to their Main Monastery and am quite familiar with many of their monastics and laity. Their Founder is my refuge master and preceptor and I have met him and other Elder Chief Abbots in person. And I do the same with many other Buddhist organisations that I support too. Which human organisation has not erred? My practice tells me to accept people and organisations with perfections and flaws and to remember that my role is to first improve myself before attempting to change others.

At the early stages, with a huge Way Place, they could not afford many chairs and whatever chairs they had were all from kind sponsors and if they had functions, at one time, they were practicing this: if a talk was at the west wing, all the chairs that were in a storeroom in the east wing were to be carried to the west wing and back after the talk and if there was an event in south/north wing, the same was done. So the Master himself saw the kind of want that was causing hardship and he vowed that he will eradicate all these and improve conditions. Today, all over the Main Monastery, there are chairs everywhere and for everyone. It didn't mattered if he was not at ease, as long as others were at ease. He built the Way Place for others, not for himself. The legacy speaks for itself.

Humanistic Buddhism: what inspired him to promote this. This was related to me by a member.
At one time in Taiwan, it was said that the perception of people there was that the Buddhist monastics and laity were just a bunch of self seeking fellas if not blood (money) suckers and ritualistic religion business. Some would not hesitate to even spit at a Buddhist monk or nun and were despised. And not forgetting his own past experience of the same hardship and unkindness from his own fraternity. Through many decades of dedication and changing their perception of Buddhist monastics and laity, the Master brought the Buddha Dharma from the monastery into the cities and villages.

Where people are, there they are. A Pure Mind, Pure Land on earth. Where there is social and welfare need to be met, they will be there for them. Education, social welfare, medical facilities and so forth...all part and parcel of Humanistic Buddhism. So he and a couple more of pioneering and visionary Masters like Masters Yin Shun, Cheng Yan, Sheng Yen and so forth helped to correct and change old assumptions and prejudices. Today, many of the once impoverished Taiwanese owe their education and social welfare care & blessings to these brave pioneers and are most respected.

My role with them is not to seek out their weaknesses nor be a fault finding monger but to work with them to see what else I can contribute towards promoting the Buddha Dharma and charitable causes for all sentient beings. Instead of criticising the 'grandeur', I would rather rejoice in their merits that through this latest endeavor, through the scarce resources of the Ten Directions, Fo Guang Shan is able to promote Buddhist spirituality and practice, further create the awareness for charitable welfare of all, both in Taiwan and worldwide and all sentient beings need not suffer want and hardship just to know and practice the Buddha Dharma as well as reaching out for the welfare of all.

Oh ya and next one they are gonna target on is the portraits and statues of the Master in all FGS/BLIA Chapters worldwide huh?
Nah, I have stated beyond my quota for today and will only focus on what I said earlier about context and perspective, for without it, even a pencil can be taken for a murder weapon instead of a writing tool...nothing like tasting honey to know that it's sweet...

[KinicsBonee]

Yes, when people take the teaching aids to replace the Teaching, then in that sense, 'idolatry' occurs because then they forget what was the original resolve and practice and it unleases a series of unwholesome causes and conditions unfavourable for a cultivator's mind and life, not because it offends a creator's ego somewhere out there. One must never confuse the individual acts of piety as the standard of a particular tenet, they don't correspond all the time, even if they can quote scriptures a toilet roll's worth. Hi plwk,
Good to read such an interesting post. Very much agree with this paragraph.

[Sheestgag]

Veneration and idolatry aren't necessarily a bad thing. Yes, honoring relics is demonized by various traditions, but the fact is we bow to the Buddha, to monks to lamas and idols not because we're worshiping but out of respect. And isn't it also a remedy for pride? By bowing to another, or a Holy object, we are are showing our humility and humbleness. It's not about idolatry. It's a cure for the conditioning of pride in my opinion.