[valensds]

I remember a conversation I had with an older mentor of mine. It was one of those instances where you aggree, but with reservations.

This mentor was an older female, who was reminiscing on her views about why people don't like themselves. She boils it down to the subject of morality. In her view, People who do immoral things end up disliking themselves.

I disagree.

For one, I feel like alot of our denigration of ourselves comes from our self-alienation. That is my view, and I am convinced that self-alienation is a prominent factor in our sense of disatisfaction about ourselves. I see that we are afflicted by negatively negative self judgement to the degree that we are self-alienated.

And this is an interesting phenomenon to think about, in terms of where it comes from. I suspect that self-alienation is a learned behavior, but as to where it comes from I do not know.

But I mention my mentor's theory of it boiling down to morality because I do not think that self-alienation comes from a rejection of the self. I think it comes from an an inability to find enjoyment in the present moment. And where is there to go besides where you are? Is it not logical to surmise that if one did exist, that one would exist immediately?

If you are not present, you are alienated from the present.

I see that because we do not properly relate to the Now, we seek out all sorts of objects and experiences in order to fulfill ourselves, such as vice/sin, or self-improvement.

That brings up an interesting subject: perhaps Vice and Virtue are two sides of the same coin.

[greeferweq]

Sometimes, self loathing is a symptom of depression. You might say we are depressed because we are not aware of the present moment and we constantly think about negative things. Unfortunately, it's not that simple. It is hard to define human behavior just like that. Depression is sometimes due to genetics. We are complex creations of nature. A chemical imbalance in the brain due to a malfunctioning organ can change your behavior more than you like to think it does.

[Vemnagelignc]

Sometimes I fear that I'm the only unenlightened person around. I get so suspicious when that happens. But watching myself squirm with the anxiety, fearing that maybe I have a horrible true self and everyone recognizes it but me. I learn alot about tendencies I hide from myself that way. It's painful but what can you do? everyone's a little crazy.

[MightyMasc]

Trust me Kagyupa, your not the only unenlightened person around, given my amount of defilements. It does seem to me as a fellow sufferer of mental ill health that you seem to be sliding into a period of low mood, perhaps a chat with your community mental health team or the US equivalent might be in order. I'm convinced that study and practice of the Dhamma can be extremely helpful for people with a psychiatric history but that doesn't mean we should neglect the bio-medical model in order to get us through to the point where we can rely less on medication and the like.

[pymnConyelell]

But watching myself squirm with the anxiety, fearing that maybe I have a horrible true self and everyone recognizes it

Sometimes, people try to treat disorders merely with Dhamma practice. Your practice definitely works but it takes time. Clear results are in the long run. In the meantime, you have to be kind to yourself and recognize that you need to win small battles in order to win the war. If you think that you are constantly down with anxiety or irrational fear which is overwhelming, it is time to get medical care.

Btw, I am not enlightened so you are not alone.