[TimoDassss]

Cute smiley - lol .... no need to surrender on my account though, you are entitled to hold your view :hug:

Thanks...

[kilibry]

What makes someone a cult figure is not necessarily of their own doing, or even of their own desire. I have to admit that I have a fondness for His Holiness and hold him up on a pedestal. That's my own attachment and I recognize it. I think he would be the first to tell me that I'm foolish, and perhaps that's the conundrum here.

Honestly, I think anyone who experienced what this young man did in his days when he became the Dalai Lama who can maintain honest compassion for all beings is an example to be followed. As a man, he may be a simple monk, but I don't doubt that he shows his inner Buddha nature better than most. Of course there are hundreds, maybe even thousands, of simple buddhist monks that also show this Buddha nature and do so outside of the limelight.

I don't see His Holiness as seeking the limelight, however, as much as I see a simple monk who truly recognizes the responsibilities that had been placed on him. Those responsibilities have led him to a very unorthodox decision of appointing the next Dalai Lama as opposed to having his reincarnation found by those he leaves behind.

[icedrakona]

There has been a great deal of interest in HHDL and TB in general in Western countries . Using the term cult figure in relation to HHDL in the West is problematic for me as a cult commonly refers to a religious group held together by a dominant and charismatic individual. Use of the term suggests his HHDL seeks this in the West and his relationship to other countries, religions, Buddhist traditions and the like is not as a cult leader.

[truttyMab]

Hopeing not getting into trouble again, cult is, in social phenomena and Social Sychology understandings a kind of Fan or admirer brought into an extreme giving her o him or it an outstanding devotion beyond rationality. Einstein, Morison, Lenon, Beethoven and others like them are called cult objects in street jargon. That is why. But seems I have had a wrong categorization.

[GlictStiply]

I guess this is another example of colloquial use of the term rather than a strict definition - and I agree HHDL does certainly have that type of appeal in the West. It is always good to discuss with you Kaarine - if we agree or disagree, just the same.

[hellenmoranov]

Kaarine

after much consideration I think I should respect that you have a much different view than I do of the Dalai Lama and I may have been harsh myself in my response. I was shocked by your comments but maybe I should have taken more time to consider my response. I just want to add that I hold no hard feelings at all and I generally find your comments helpful.

[Accor$314]

Kaarine

after much consideration I think I should respect that you have a much different view than I do of the Dalai Lama and I may have been harsh myself in my response. I was shocked by your comments but maybe I should have taken more time to consider my response. I just want to add that I hold no hard feelings at all and I generally find your comments helpful.

Yes Karma, seems we have different views about Dalai Lama but anyway, my comments were really stupid and insensitive, and I sincerely felt really bad.

Thanks for not having hard feelings toward me. I think I learned a lesson... again. Sometimes my temper is not good.

My best wishes... (and no hard feelings, too )

[AmfitNom]

... and makes me very happy to see you back... :hug:

[Kristoferson]

Agree Element.

Also HHDL has said at every public teaching of his which I have attended over the years, that he is foremost a simple Tibetan Buddhist monk and it is not my understanding that he seeks to become a cult figure in the West.

andyrobyn

I am sure that someone somewhere on this site will quote from somehere that the Buddah also stated that he was not special, that he was just a teacher and that all that he said could be questioned.

Peace

Gerry

[rhiniddibiarmr]

andyrobyn

I am sure that someone somewhere on this site will quote from somehere that the Buddah also stated that he was not special, that he was just a teacher and that all that he said could be questioned.

Peace

Gerry

Hi Gerry,

I am not sure what relevant point I am failing to get from this post , would you explain for me please? From memory I mentioned HHDL saying this due to me getting the idea that he visited western countries, like Australia where I live, as a leader ( of a " cult " ).

[casinobonusnolimit]

There is cult and there is cult of personality. The latter is a phenomena whereby the central figure exercises no direct control nor necessarily any intended control. Her or his popularity, perceived trustworthiness, veracity, wisdom, passion, or whatever make him or her into a being whose influence over those who are drawn into the cult is greatly magnified over that of other (non-related) beings.

One can certainly argue that the aura of "holiness", of an "ambassador" of peace, love, compassion, "new" spirituality, (for those "Lost Horizon" buffs), combined with a healthy dose of mystique and exoticism make him both iconic and powerful, as both a cultural and, to a limited degree (but very limited....after all money talks and China's where the action is) political figure. He is also a being with a significant following who unquestioningly see him as an enlightened being holding all the answers, etc. I'm not one of them; however, I take teachings from him whenever I have the opportunity to do so. See below for why. Basically, it's because he knows the material cold and is a great teacher.

I would argue that none of the above perceived attributes are intentionally cultivated by HHDL, though I'm sure he has always seen it to be to his advantage to have the support of as many people throughout the world as possible as a means of leverage in his dealing with the Chinese. More power to him for that. Whatever you think of the merits of his claims, as a representative of the Tibetan people, he's worked tirelessly for many years to achieve the best result for them. As has been pointed out, he never asked for the job; it was conferred on him at age 15 (it was rushed due to the Chinese invasion).

HHDL's larger than life persona gradually took shape due to the way HHDL passionately and skillfully made a case for Tibet over the years, combined with curiosity about Tibetan teachings, Shangri La mythology (thanks Mr. Rampa), his Nobel Peace Prize, and his unique personality. He's not bland, boring, stupid, venal, or self-aggrandizing, IMO; he's got a good, sometimes dry wit. Once, when a Vietnamese group had chanted a particularly slow and repetitive version of the Heart Sutra before his teaching that day, he quipped "bit long", which drew more than a few laughs.

He may also say all kinds of "feel good" things to his football stadium audiences but is quite blunt in responding to questions and in addressing issues with his 1-week teaching dharma student crowd. That extends to chastising certain questions as lacking in seriousness, reflecting laziness, etc. I also know and have read about personal students of HHDL. He's a very strict teacher, especially if his students fail to carry out his instructions properly. He's just tell them to go back and do it again. He has also lectured tulkus (supposed rebirths of high lamas, who have privileged lives, especially when growing up) that, if they don't study harder and perform the duties expected of them, he's cut them loose and strip them of their title. He's called some of them a disgrace to the lineage, as a matter of fact. He's also pushed for years to elevate the status of women who seek ordination (against great resistance, I might add), and has always stated that, if something is proven to be true by scientific study and experiment, then whatever the Abhidharma or any other writing says about it should be scrapped. So, he's not rooted in the past.. His annual Mind Life conferences with notable life scientists and Buddhist scholars has been going on for 23 years now. These are all qualities I like in a teacher.

He has made statements that I'm not all that keen on, for political reasons no doubt (for example avoiding any condemnation of his host country India. Consider, however that Tibetans are still technically guests of the Indian Government and don't have an Indian passport. They can be thrown out anytime, theoretically, if they fail to show proper respect (meaning...support for their sometimes wrongheaded political policies, nukes, and the rest). HHDL also meets with people I don't care for (again, to shore up political support---his job), and one can probably find all sorts of negative things to say about him.

that said, I don't question his commitment to teaching the dharma or practicing it intensely (3:30 am to 9:30 am each day----is there a single person here who works that their practice that hard?...if so that's a great accomplishment, seriously), or his compassion, love of sentient beings, or intention to get enlightened for the benefit of sentient beings.

For the serious student of Nalanda philosophy and Lam Rim study and practice (Tib equivalent...very roughly...of the 8-fold Path containing most, if not all, of the points enumerated there plus a lot of additional material), HHDL's teachings, his actual instructions, his ability to explain difficult material, reconcile conflicts in spiritual sources, and overall pragmatism as well, in terms of how best to approach practice as a Westerner with limited time (just as the Buddha advised busy kings).

Attending week long (or longer) teachings of HHDL is a very different sort of experience from attending his "rock star" appearances at public parks and football stadiums. The longer teachings yield a scholar who's very comfortable and completely conversant in his material and who really demonstrates great love for it, especially for Indian mahayana scholars such as Nagarjuna and Shantideva (his two favorite, I'd say). Like any great teacher he has the ability to convey the essence of the material as well as parsing each line (which I've been fortunate enough to have heard him do with the Guide to the Bodhisatva's Way of Life, for example....at least through the first 7 chapters, until he was running out of time (it was an 8 day teaching).

[paulaglober]

I also attend teachings with him whenever possible for similar reasons as you describe, tjampel.
Mostly in Australia I have been able to attend 3 and 4 day teachings ... last year we had only 2 days - still was a very valuable experience. My teacher was present and expanded further with our online skype study group.