[Pdarasenko]

A very good talk, a very refreshing way of looking at Buddhism and the teachings.

What came across to me was that he began by sweeping away all the reverence and ideas that are normally associated with the Buddha, and then replaced them by showing personal respect that comes from his own experience of following the path.

I liked the simplicity of his approach.

I agree with you Woodscooter...

it is his teachings that are important

Sure... its all what really matters.

Who has put the Buddha on a pedestal?

Many traditions with a highly religious profile in their practice... and not only "Buddhas" or dead gurus... living ones are about worshiping.

[tsovimnpb]

His way of explaining Buddhism and Buddha's teachings has helped me greatly.

Happy to see you postin again Gary dear :hug:

Of course, that is the way our Roshi explains facts too. Openly and direct to what has to be done. Without useless adornments.

[Barbshowers]

why is this person a zen buddhist if he doesnt even think that eliminateing the defilements is possible? hes being hippocritical, he doesnt know for certain that a buddha is imperfect, but he says a buddha cant be perfect once again more non believers believing things.

[JessePex]

why is this person a zen buddhist if he doesnt even think that eliminateing the defilements is possible?

He is knocking down the ideas of pie-in-the-sky perfection. It is clear that he does see that defilments can be eliminated, but is indicting the sort of black/white-thinking ideas of perfection that tend to attach to the notion of ending the defilements.

hes being hippocritical, ...criticising hippopotami...?

he doesnt know for certain that a buddha is imperfect, but he says a buddha cant be perfect He said himself that he was probing statements that seem to contradict each other.

once again more non believers believing things. I am not convinced that he is into "believing". Nor am I convinced that being a "Buddhist" is about "believing".

[xT0U3UGh]

he is attached to his view that it impossible to be morally flawless, he already has stopped looking for the truth. buddha was not a man and not a god, he was awake. i dont think buddhism is about believing either, but it is about having an open mind and not being attached to your own views, if you are too attached to your own views, when the actual truth does come and it doesnt fit with your ideas you will dismiss it.

[Kausilwf]

...if you are too attached to your own views,
when the actual truth does come and
it doesnt fit with your ideas
you will dismiss it.

[avaiguite]

he is attached to his view that it impossible to be morally flawless,

To the contrary. He is not attached to the ideal of perfection. He strives for progress. "Perfection" is bullshit.

he already has stopped looking for the truth. The only truths one needs in this endeavor is the 4NT. I rather doubt that he is unfamiliar with them.

buddha was not a man and not a god, he was awake. The Buddha was indeed a man with some good ideas.

i dont think buddhism is about believing either, but it is about having an open mind and not being attached to your own views Too many people think that being closed-minded is "having an open mind". Again, he declares himself not attached to a perfectionist ideal.

, if you are too attached to your own views, when the actual truth does come and it doesnt fit with your ideas you will dismiss it. ...which I point out all the time, but so many who need to know this just don't get it...

[wmzeto]

A very good talk, a very refreshing way of looking at Buddhism and the teachings.

What came across to me was that he began by sweeping away all the reverence and ideas that are normally associated with the Buddha, and then replaced them by showing personal respect that comes from his own experience of following the path.

I liked the simplicity of his approach.

I agree.

He didn't even kick the cat

[AlexanderPalamayr]

Jundo Cohen's words expressed here resonate with my own experience with Buddhism. To deify the Buddha is to set him far apart from ourselves, as if we could never in a million years accomplish what he was able to. As I see it, the Buddha was not infallible, yet nonetheless came to a deep understanding of many practical things.

I see nothing particularly controversial in the message, or presentation thereof, given in this video. There is no disparaging of others' beliefs, but merely the offering of another perspective, one that has been given far too much undeserved criticism. I see no need for fanciful stories in my practice, personally. If they help others, then so be it, but I would not consider them in any way truthful representations of the Buddha.

Overall, I feel this video was wonderfully done.

[avaiftBoara]

Agreed, Zero. And welcome to the forum :-)

[RerRibreLok]

It wasn't meant as a news item Keith dear, not everyone is familiar with Zen or with Jundo Cohen, so I just wondered what others thought about his views in the video - and thought it might be a possible topic for discussion

Hmmmm! Im new to all this e discussions , ( Buddha Dharma practitioner for 15 years) I hope it is going to be useful ....I do wonder about calling someone 'dear' ...it seems a bit patronising or are you elderly?
I cannot find anything on the site about who is running it .... who is the administrator and who/what is the 'Global Moderator ...should i be asking this elsewhere?
Anyway ...thanks for the video and the site....

[Ankeseiband]

Originally Posted by Aloka-D It wasn't meant as a news item Keith dear, not everyone is familiar with Zen or with Jundo Cohen, so I just wondered what others thought about his views in the video - and thought it might be a possible topic for discussion

Hmmmm! Im new to all this e discussions , ( Buddha Dharma practitioner for 15 years) I hope it is going to be useful ....I do wonder about calling someone 'dear' ...it seems a bit patronising or are you elderly?
I cannot find anything on the site about who is running it .... who is the administrator and who/what is the 'Global Moderator ...should i be asking this elsewhere?
Anyway ...thanks for the video and the site.... Not sure why calling someone "dear" would automatically be either patronizing or elderly...

For what it's worth, A-D is from England.

A-D also owns the site. I figure that means she can call anyone "dear" if she wants to, any time she wants to.

Heh.

[jesyflowers]

Hmmmm! Im new to all this e discussions , ( Buddha Dharma practitioner for 15 years) I hope it is going to be useful ....I do wonder about calling someone 'dear' ...it seems a bit patronising or are you elderly?
I cannot find anything on the site about who is running it .... who is the administrator and who/what is the 'Global Moderator ...should i be asking this elsewhere?
Anyway ...thanks for the video and the site....

Welcome MTNESS, your personal remarks have been noted with surprise and amusement . However this video topic in our Beyond Belief debating forum is not about me or the running of the site.

Introductions and questions take place in the New Member Welcome and Introductions threads, and in the Beginners forum, or for technical queries in the Technical Help forum.

Thank you for your consideration.

Kind regards,

Aloka-D (Admin)

[dxpfmP0l]

What he meant is that the Buddha did not have supernatural powers,and that any tales of His supernatural abilities are concocted by followers of the Awakened One.
So the Mahayanist scriptures contain outright lies in them?
He is like a frog living at the bottom of a well,thinking that the sky is only the size of that round patch above it.......

[scoundtrack]

I didn't see this thread the first time around ... not my preferred style of teaching and nothing particularly new and inspiring for me ... agree with the sentiment of focus on the teaching, not on the man though.

[jstizzle]

Happy to be able to agree with Aloka on something....the cat's meows are very cute and also...I'll add...very timely,
punctuating the end of the teaching perfectly.

There's an interesting debate among Tibetans about Milarepa. He's always referred to as Tibet's greatest yogi but...was he? Was he an ordinary man who achieved great things through yogic perception or...was he some kind of emanation of a great being. If the latter how can he be Tibet's greatest yogi. I mean, someone who is already a buddha doesn't need to meditate on anything, really. And if they choose to make a show of meditating to inspire the masses, or whatever, they're not being a great yogi at all. They're constantly seeing reality without ever having to meditate; they're achieving absolutely nothing through meditation; they're just putting on a good show.

Tibet's greatest yogi should be a guy who wasn't so nice, got into fights, treated people badly, and suffered because of it, and then....for whatever reason, had a burning desire to right these wrongs. And that is exactly the kind of being Milarepa was (assuming he was just a regular guy before his liberation). He killed a lot of people intentionally (for what he felt was a good cause---to protect his mother from abuse by relatives), got nothing at all for his efforts (his mother died), and then truly regretted what he'd done and sought refuge in the dharma.

When Milarepa was asked "who are you...really" at various times after he had completed his various retreats and began his teaching career as an itinerant poet/storyteller who taught by answering villager's questions with poem and song. Each time he was asked, he repeated that he was just an ordinary sentient being who achieved freedom through taking proper refuge and practicing his teacher's instructions well. And still no one believed him and he's treated, to this day, as a sublime emanation of whomever by many.

And the same is said to be true for all the great lineage founders and many of the great practitioners. They are all said to be emanations of some great being. So the moral seems to be, unless you're already some kind of realized being you can't hope to achieve complete liberation. That's not why the Buddha taught us ordinary beings how to achieve just those states, I hope ("first make sure you're already enlightened, then pretend to learn to meditate, etc...")

For me....Milarepa is an ordinary guy who had a very tragic life prior to his involvement in Buddhism, who's motivation and effort was unparalleled and who's practice during 12 years of more or less continuous retreat, led to a high level of realization. That is inspirational; the emanation stuff is not.

Now could Milarepa fit himself into the horn of a yak (as was /is claimed)----as likely as the Buddha being able to demonstrate fire and ice in the same place. Was he experiencing existential angst, was he suffering, I think not. And isn't that the goal?

One of my more unconventional teachers (he refuses to teach at dharma centers because of their "taint" of "holiness" once came up with a description of what it's like to be enlightened that I've always liked. To be enlightened, he said, is being able to say "I'm doing OK" no matter what the circumstance and mean it completely in every way. Does this "dumb down" concepts of enlightenment; well, as the video points out, that may not be a bad thing. If everything ....and I mean everything is perfectly OK then where's the basis for suffering. As long as OK is good enough, that is (as long as it doesn't imply..."could be better"). That's the kind of OK my teacher meant, of course, not "so so" but..."it's fine". Does this apply to any of us? Well, certainly not me. Perhaps one or more of you.

So, yeah, I'll take my Buddha fully human (rather than one who descended from Akanishta heaven to take that form), prone to error, on occasion, and yes, when he told Ananda, as his paranibbanha was fast approaching that , sure, he could have extended his life had someone bothered to ask him, perhaps there's a bit of snippiness in his voice (in my mind at least).

Apologize for the rant-i-ness of this post.

[AnIInWon]

What he meant is that the Buddha did not have supernatural powers,and that any tales of His supernatural abilities are concocted by followers of the Awakened One.
So the Mahayanist scriptures contain outright lies in them?
He is like a frog living at the bottom of a well,thinking that the sky is only the size of that round patch above it.......

Hi Not_Two,

Who (in your opinion) is like a frog at the bottom of a well? Jundo Cohen ? He is a well known Mahayana Zen teacher who lives in Japan.

More here:

http://www.treeleaf.org/


I wonder if you might like to introduce yourself to us in the Welcome to new members forum, by the way?


.