[Acrogeokickic]

Hi All,

It has been said that the Buddha gave 84,000 Teachings to ensure that every Human Being has access to the Dharma Teachings in a way thay can benefit them.

Regardless of the exact number, which I personaly feel is irrelevent as an exact count, it is clear that the overall goal was to free all beings from the suffering of Samsara.

With this in mind there is no point in being critical of any other persons choice of which School or Teachings they choose to follow. Sadly, as with every other aspect of existance in Samsara attachment tends to rear its head and lead people into debate and disagreement as opposed to a respectful wish to learn about a different form of the Buddhist Teachings without a concern over what is "authentic" or "Historicaly Correct"

With some minor execptions as to the benifit of specific Practices I have never heard any of the High Lamas / Masters of any of the Buddist Schools state that another School "yana " etc is a wrong view. Most, if not all, of the discord appears to stem from students defending their turf as opposed to focusing on thier own authentic faith and Practices.

While very much a newbie here at BWB, many of the threads here have been very interesting and showed me a POV that is different from my own and for this I have great respect and gratitude for all of the people that have contributed. I hope to continue to learn from all of the Members of the Forum and hope that some of the recent threads about what Schools are "correct" can be resolved.

All the Best.

[oemcheapdownload]

There is much more that unites us than divides us but we often focus on the latter

[appletango]

Karma Yeshe, I've really enjoyed learning about your point of view and look forward to learning even more about it. I don't always agree with everything others say, but I almost always benefit from having a look at things from another perspective. Thanks for being here.

[xT0U3UGh]

Regardless of the exact number, which I personaly feel is irrelevent as an exact count, it is clear that the overall goal was to free all beings from the suffering of Samsara.

I agree

Just as there are different illnesses, there are different kinds of medicines

Suffering comes in many forms, just as physical illness comes in many forms

The medicine one seeks will accord with one's perceived needs

May all beings be free from sufferings

[WhonyGataxott]

the Buddha [...] ensure that every Human Being has access to the Dharma Teachings in a way thay can benefit them.

Absolutly K.Yeshe.

While very much a newbie here at BWB, many of the threads here have been very interesting and showed me a POV that is different from my own and for this I have great respect and gratitude for all of the people that have contributed. Sure. This is the reason that makes BWB so different, IMO.

I hope to continue to learn from all of the Members of the Forum... and we hope to keep learning from yours K.Yeshe

and hope that some of the recent threads about what Schools are "correct" can be resolved. Is the way things are. Nobody tries to harm anybody. We can all learn a lot from everybody's posts.

All the Best.

[Alice_Medichi34]

I would swear that there was another reply here that I was going to respond to...the phone rang and now I dont see it.

[searkibia]

Hi All,

It has been said that the Buddha gave 84,000 Teachings to ensure that every Human Being has access to the Dharma Teachings in a way thay can benefit them.

Lots of things have been said "in the Buddha's name".

Regardless of the exact number, which I personaly feel is irrelevent as an exact count, it is clear that the overall goal was to free all beings from the suffering of Samsara. From suffering, anyway.

With this in mind there is no point in being critical of any other persons choice of which School or Teachings they choose to follow. Sadly, as with every other aspect of existance in Samsara attachment tends to rear its head and lead people into debate and disagreement as opposed to a respectful wish to learn about a different form of the Buddhist Teachings without a concern over what is "authentic" or "Historicaly Correct" Revisionist Straw Man argument. The Buddha himself was concerned with keeping the authenticity of his teachings:

"Monks, there once was a time when the Dasarahas had a large drum called 'Summoner.' Whenever Summoner was split, the Dasarahas inserted another peg in it, until the time came when Summoner's original wooden body had disappeared and only a conglomeration of pegs remained. [1]

"In the same way, in the course of the future there will be monks who won't listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. They won't lend ear, won't set their hearts on knowing them, won't regard these teachings as worth grasping or mastering. But they will listen when discourses that are literary works — the works of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of outsiders, words of disciples — are recited. They will lend ear and set their hearts on knowing them. They will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.

"In this way the disappearance of the discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — will come about.

"Thus you should train yourselves: 'We will listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. We will lend ear, will set our hearts on knowing them, will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.' That's how you should train yourselves."




"Foolish man, to whom do you know me having taught the Dhamma like this. Haven’t I taught, in various ways that consciousness is dependently arisen. Without a cause, there is no arising of consciousness. Yet you, foolish man, on account of your wrong view, you misrepresent me, as well as destroy yourself and accumulate much demerit, for which you will suffer for a long time."



With some minor execptions as to the benifit of specific Practices I have never heard any of the High Lamas / Masters of any of the Buddist Schools state that another School "yana " etc is a wrong view. Most, if not all, of the discord appears to stem from students defending their turf as opposed to focusing on thier own authentic faith and Practices. The denigration is just a little more subtle -- though not by much, especially with the still very widespread use of the term "hinayana".

I hope to continue to learn from all of the Members of the Forum and hope that some of the recent threads about what Schools are "correct" can be resolved.
It is more about "teachings" than "schools". That's what the Buddha's "Four Great References" are for. Have you heard of them (serious question, with the deepest respect)?

[Diortarkivoff]

I would swear that there was another reply here that I was going to respond to...the phone rang and now I dont see it.

Yes...there is another reply here (which was subject to some temporary impermanence)

[HawksBurnDown]

The medicine one seeks will accord with one's perceived needs

Absolutely.

....and for everyone at BWB, I'd like to quote the words of the Karaniya Metta Sutta from Amaravati Monastery Chanting Book:


The Buddha’s words on loving-kindness.

[This is what should be done]
By one who is skilled in goodness
And who knows the path of peace:
Let them be able and upright,
Straightforward and gentle in speech,
Humble and not conceited,
Contented and easily satisfied,
Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways.
Peaceful and calm, and wise and skilful,
Not proud and demanding in nature.

Let them not do the slightest thing
That the wise would later reprove,
Wishing: In gladness and in safety,
May all beings be at ease.

Whatever living beings there may be,
Whether they are weak or strong, omitting none,
The great or the mighty, medium, short, or small,
The seen and the unseen,
Those living near and far away,
Those born and to be born,
May all beings be at ease.

Let none deceive another
Or despise any being in any state.
Let none through anger or ill-will
Wish harm upon another.
Even as a mother protects with her life
Her child, her only child,
So with a boundless heart
Should one cherish all living beings,
Radiating kindness over the entire world:
Spreading upwards to the skies
And downwards to the depths,

Outwards and unbounded,
Freed from hatred and ill-will.
Whether standing or walking, seated,
Or lying down – free from drowsiness –
One should sustain this recollection.
This is said to be the sublime abiding.
By not holding to false views,
The pure-hearted one, having clarity of vision,
Being freed from all sense-desires,
Is not born again into this world.

http://www.amaravati.org/abmnew/docu..._Book_2006.pdf

[Pcodaygs]

Thank you Aloka - D

Wonderful aspirations and the encouragement certainly helps me to have the will to keep on trying.

[Fertassa]

Hi All,

It has been said that the Buddha gave 84,000 Teachings to ensure that every Human Being has access to the Dharma Teachings in a way thay can benefit them.

Regardless of the exact number, which I personaly feel is irrelevent as an exact count, it is clear that the overall goal was to free all beings from the suffering of Samsara.

With this in mind there is no point in being critical of any other persons choice of which School or Teachings they choose to follow. Sadly, as with every other aspect of existance in Samsara attachment tends to rear its head and lead people into debate and disagreement as opposed to a respectful wish to learn about a different form of the Buddhist Teachings without a concern over what is "authentic" or "Historicaly Correct"

With some minor execptions as to the benifit of specific Practices I have never heard any of the High Lamas / Masters of any of the Buddist Schools state that another School "yana " etc is a wrong view. Most, if not all, of the discord appears to stem from students defending their turf as opposed to focusing on thier own authentic faith and Practices.

While very much a newbie here at BWB, many of the threads here have been very interesting and showed me a POV that is different from my own and for this I have great respect and gratitude for all of the people that have contributed. I hope to continue to learn from all of the Members of the Forum and hope that some of the recent threads about what Schools are "correct" can be resolved.

All the Best.

dear karma yeshe ,

very nicely said ,

I have just arrived here , and to see a post devoted to disscusson on disschord and schysms , I nearly un registered .
however I am a very tollerant person so have persevered ...... to hear someone new speaking so evenly is very refreshing .

I remember many years back being given a teaching on the 84,000 deluded states of mind identified by the buddha , upon which he gave the 84,000 teachings ,
from this I think we might learn a little caution and humillity ,

can I even count to 84,000 ? no probably not , let alone remember all the teachings ?
yet we can remember three , ......attatchment , anger , ignorance ,
and then be mindfull to apply the antidote practices , generosity , patience and wisdom .
generosity in allowing another his oppinion , patience in letting him find his own way , and wisdom in knowing how to help him rather than argue with him !

so yes , I second karma yeshe 's sentiments and hope that as he says these squables "can be resolved "before we disscredit a noble tradition.

namaskars ratikala

[Alulursuifold]

dear karma yeshe ,

very nicely said ,

I have just arrived here , and to see a post devoted to disscusson on disschord and schysms , I nearly un registered .
however I am a very tollerant person so have persevered ...... to hear someone new speaking so evenly is very refreshing .

I remember many years back being given a teaching on the 84,000 deluded states of mind identified by the buddha , upon which he gave the 84,000 teachings ,
from this I think we might learn a little caution and humillity ,

can I even count to 84,000 ? no probably not , let alone remember all the teachings ?
yet we can remember three , ......attatchment , anger , ignorance ,
and then be mindfull to apply the antidote practices , generosity , patience and wisdom .
generosity in allowing another his oppinion , patience in letting him find his own way , and wisdom in knowing how to help him rather than argue with him !

so yes , I second karma yeshe 's sentiments and hope that as he says these squables "can be resolved "before we disscredit a noble tradition.

namaskars ratikala

In Fairness, Everyone here has been very gracious and has a very Interesting Piont of veiw and there are very good topics for every level and type of student.

Also, I have been guilty of tending to be more active in the Threads that are more relevant to My Lineage and less when I have a difference of opinion with the origanal post.

Welcome to the Forum and dive right in...The water is great !

[FrereeDoulley]

Also, I have been guilty of tending to be more active in the Threads that are more relevant to My Lineage and less when I have a difference of opinion with the origanal post.

dear karma yeshe ,


surely that is only natural , it is easier to talk within ones own tradition .

but I worry about the idea of "difference of oppinion " after all do we not choose the tradition most suited to our mind set or mentality , I tend to regard each tradition as a different path with different methods of accheiving the same goal , the short path , the slow path , the direct , the gentle .....after all 84,000 deluded states of mind , ........
that means an awfull lot of different methods of acheiving clarity !

hardly surprising we experience different oppinions ,

differing states of delusion ,

In all honesty its amazing that we understand eachother as much as we do

namaskars ratikala

[southernplayer99]

Discussion only with those who we already know we agree with does little to challenge our thinking and may actually be harmful if we are discussing and seeking to be certain of anything.
I like what this quote says, from Carl Jung - Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol or morphine or idealism.

[werkeeque]

Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol or morphine or idealism

Absolutely - and I think we can add fundamentalism and ''my method is superior to yours'' to the brew as well !

[corsar-caribean]

There are a few words found dotted around the various Buddhist Scriptures relevant to this thread.........


The Lord speaks with but one voice, but all beings, each according to their kind, gain understanding, each thinking that the Lord speaks their own language. This is a special quality of the Buddha. The Lord speaks with but one voice, but all beings, each according to their own ability, act upon it, and each derives the appropriate benefit. This is a special quality of the Buddha.

(Vimalakirti Sutra)


Just as the nature of the earth is one
While beings each live separately,
And the earth has no thought of oneness or difference,
So is the truth of all Buddhas.

Just as the ocean is one
With millions of different waves,
Yet the water is no different:
So is the truth of all Buddhas.

Just as the element earth, while one,
Can produce various sprouts,
Yet it's not that the earth is diverse:
So is the truth of all Buddhas.

(Hua-Yen Sutra)


I bring fullness and satisfaction to the world,
like rain that spreads its moisture everywhere.
Eminent and lowly, superior and inferior,
observers of precepts, violators of precepts,
those fully endowed with proper demeanor,
those not fully endowed,
those of correct views, of erroneous views,
of keen capacity, of dull capacity -
I cause the Dharma rain to rain on all equally,
never lax or neglectful.
When all the various living beings
hear my Law,
they receive it according to their power,
dwelling in their different environments.....
..The Law of the Buddhas
is constantly of a single flavour,
causing the many worlds
to attain full satisfaction everywhere;
by practicing gradually and stage by stage,
all beings can gain the fruits of the way.

(The Lotus Sutra, Parable of the Dharma Rain)

[ggiifdfalls]

Absolutely - and I think we can add fundamentalism and ''my method is superior to yours'' to the brew as well !

For sure ....

some futher thoughts on why critical thinking, especially in relation to our approach to practice is important.

Someone who expressed such views most of the time, in a softer moment , told me that in order to be able to believe he needed to see his tradition was the only way and superior to all others - I would add that he has since changed the way he expresses himself. He is a great inspiration for me, for as he says; now that he knows a bit more he doesn't need to believe as much.

I have a few friends who are still quite radical in their approach to feminism and continue to see much through the lens of gender issues. When we discussed this recently I was told that they weren't quite ready to give it up yet - after many years of oppression and discrimination the lens was still needed - I can understand this and mysogony certainly still abides. I think many who take dogmatic and fundamental approaches to practice see it this way also.