[MinisuipGaicai]

Dear friends,

As the new guidelines for this Beyond Belief forum are: "A forum for free enquiry and critical exploration of Buddhism in the modern world," I thought you might like to discuss this article from the UK Guardian newspaper.


The Buddhist organisations that are thriving during the debt crisis

by Mary Finnigan

"In times of financial hardship, meditators are still willing to pay large fees to hear the teachings of high-profile Buddhists"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...sm-debt-crisis


.

[HawksBurnDown]

I guess there are many who think they can buy wisdom or that there is some secret teaching that will be passed to them if they pay lots for it. Or maybe it’s just that they admire the teacher and have the spare cash to spend just to see him give a talk.
The article seems to me imply that people might be being taken advantage of although they did mention much cheaper alternatives in the UK. They didn’t mention all the free web based teachings and pod casts that are available.
Personally I would not pay any more than around £30 to go to a talk, it wouldn’t feel right.
My Meditation group recently had Brad Warner do a talk and this only cost £20 per person for 50 people.

[gomosopions]

Everything at western Theravada Forest tradition monasteries is free.....talks
and question and answer sessions with tea in between, meditation instruction, accomodation, retreats, all free. One gives a donation if one is able to.

There are also free books !

.

[fil_nurser]

Everything at western Theravada Forest tradition monasteries is free.....talks
and question and answer sessions with tea in between, meditation instruction, accomodation, retreats, all free. One gives a donation if one is able to.

There are also free books !

.

But I couldn't go to one without paying them at least what they say it costs to put on the retreat per person.

[ASSESTYTEAH]

But I couldn't go to one without paying them at least what they say it costs to put on the retreat per person.

That's up to you though, its not compulsory.

[ingeneensueva]

Everything at western Theravada Forest tradition monasteries is free.....talks
and question and answer sessions with tea in between, meditation instruction, accomodation, retreats, all free. One gives a donation if one is able to.

There are also free books !

.

dear aloka ,

ah , haa ....this is the true perfection of giving , .....Dharma and the correct conditions

of all the teachings I have attended over the years the most wonderfull were given by the most simple monks or humble practitioners , one went in expecting nothing , and came away with the most wonderfull blessing .

namaskars ratikala

[streMunford]

Everything at western Theravada Forest tradition monasteries is free.....talks
and question and answer sessions with tea in between, meditation instruction, accomodation, retreats, all free. One gives a donation if one is able to.

There are also free books !

.

It is wonderful that the tradition is able to continue to do this - obviously they have/ or have had benefactors who enable this to happen.

[chuecafresss]

It is wonderful that the tradition is able to continue to do this - obviously they have/ or have had benefactors who enable this to happen.

Oh sure - the books for example, are printed free by supporters of the monasteries. The tradition follows the ancient custom of the monks eating one daily meal offered by lay practitioners and so on.

[Toninvell]

I guess there are many who think they can buy wisdom or that there is some secret teaching that will be passed to them if they pay lots for it. Or maybe it’s just that they admire the teacher and have the spare cash to spend just to see him give a talk.
The article seems to me imply that people might be being taken advantage of although they did mention much cheaper alternatives in the UK. They didn’t mention all the free web based teachings and pod casts that are available.
Personally I would not pay any more than around £30 to go to a talk, it wouldn’t feel right.
My Meditation group recently had Brad Warner do a talk and this only cost £20 per person for 50 people.

The other side of this position is that it is skillful to " put our money where our mouth is ", so to speak, and rather than buying wisdom, maybe the individuals chose to now spend their money at the centre rather than the pub or to buy a new consumer item.

When HHDL visits Australia the price of tickets precludes many lay practitioners from being able to attend.

[vforvandetta]

The other side of this position is that it is skillful to " put our money where our mouth is ", so to speak, and rather than buying wisdom, maybe the individuals choose to now spend their money at the centre rather than the pub or to buy a new consumer item. Well not necessarily, because that money could go to the sick or starving, rather than pay some of the over-inflated prices mentioned. How wealthy do some Buddhist organisations need to be?

How many statues and decorative what-nots do they realistically need at some of the centres? What does that have to do with the Buddha's teachings ?

[Bemapayople]

I haven't read the article.

[beenBinybelia]

Nothing new or surprising in the article. I do not see the prices as overinflated and I guess I do not see the funds raised being used unwisely. In Australia it was possible to find out how funds from the tickets during the last HHDL visit I went to ( I travelled interstate from where I live to see him ) were used - my teacher showed me a break down of costs. To stimulate discussion I will offer that a lunch and dinner for the Tibetan community here were included.

[EnvellFen]

How wealthy do Buddhist organisations need to be? How many statues and decorative what-nots do they realistically need at some of the centres? What does that have to do with the Buddha's teachings ?

Yes. This is the importan issue.

"In common with pop musicians, footballers and corporate CEOs, it is the superstar Buddhist teachers who generate big money. Without them, many centres around the world would be hard pressed to make ends meet. As the older ones fade away, a new generation including the 17th Karmapa, is being groomed to take their place. These include the reincarnations of the late Ling Rinpoche, Kalu Rinpoche and Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche. (Rinpoche means "precious one")."

Mary Finnigan
We have a saying: "Faith moves mountains... (of money)"

The need and sense of protection, of belonging, etc., can lead toward spiritual materialism. To own a luxury car, a glamorous job and why not... a glamorous and exotic believe, too.

It is known that in Mexico the visits of the Dalai Lama (or the Pope) have similar treatment to those like the one of a Rock Star like Bono or M. Jagger or even like the once of a high profile politician.

On the other side, when I was a member of a Soto Zen sangha, the Roshi accepted to participate in a research project bringing books, teachings and Zen material to a female prison so to improve their conditions and mental health. Nowadays, having made inmate friends there, there is a group that is still doing meditation and studying basic Soto teachings. The last news I had, were that the Roshi was still supporting this group. All this for free.

[casinochniks]

We have a saying: "Faith moves mountains... (of money)"

It is not possible to do much on a wide scale involving others without it, money that is ( or faith either really, at least anything worthwhile, in the case of faith anything worthwhile requires it in my experience )

[DexOnenlyCymn]

The need and sense of protection, of belonging, etc., can lead toward spiritual materialism. To own a luxury car, a glamorous job and why not... a glamorous and exotic believe, too.

This is definately an aspect of the attraction to TB for many westerners seeking more meaning - in my experience it soon fails to be glamorous, exotic and exciting enough in reality and the drive to move on to something else is strong.

[CaseyFan]

When I was a member of a Soto Zen sangha, the Roshi accepted to participate in a research project bringing books, teachings and Zen material to a female prison so to improve their conditions and mental health. Nowadays, having made inmate friends there, there is a group that is still doing meditation and studying basic Soto teachings. The last news I had, were that the Roshi was still supporting this group. All this for free.

It is great that your practice was able to help bring about all of this Kaarine.

My point is that the books and bringing teachings require financial resources to happen - where ever they come from and like others here I am sure we do not mind contributing what we see as reasonable for us and commensurate for the activity involved.

[RBJamez]

here I am sure we do not mind contributing what we see as reasonable for us and commensurate for the activity involved.

Of course Andy.

There is no free lunch.

[ManHolDenPoker]

This is definitely an aspect of the attraction to TB for many westerners seeking more meaning - in my experience it soon fails to be glamorous, exotic and exciting enough in reality and the drive to move on to something else is strong.

It was not a remark for TB, but a general known statement about faiths around the world, including, if the case, TB.

A understandable human fact and a standard cultural trait.

[CKDIWEQ]

I didn't think from your comment that you were making it at TB Kaarine - most of the examples in the article were from TB, and that with good reason as I suggested, it can all appear very appealing to a seeking western mind due to a magical and mystical slant - if the cap fits wear it and all that - lol

[Mark_NyB]

Certainly everything in the developed world is based on money, it's like money is the blood coursing through the veins of modern society. If it stops moving, we are all affected.

Buddhist organisations need to hire venues for public talks, they need publicity and ticketing too, and people to operate the venues, all this must be paid for.

It's possible to charge money to the people who attend a gathering, so those who benefit are those who pay.

An alternative is to pay for public talks and teachings out of general-purpose donations made to a foundation by supporters. Then the talks may be free to those who attend, but they are not free in any other sense.