[Discus]

Teaching and discussing what is accurate and what is not does not need to involve righteous views or assertions of factual superiority

Absolutely agree on that. It's more about an exchange of knowledge and experience, from which all can draw benefit.

[Zfdeisde]

Teaching and discussing what is accurate and what is not does not need to involve righteous views or assertions of factual superiority
Absolutely agree on that. It's more about an exchange of knowledge and experience, from which all can draw benefit. Right...but I still think pizza is Italian and not from New York.....and curry is Indian and not from the UK.... LOL

[pXss8cyx]

I don't follow what you mean stuka, as always I am interested though.

"Asserting factual superiority" is in the eyes of the beholder. It does make for a convenient epithet when one wishes to ignore fact and cling to story-telling: "Oh, i won't listen to that fact because you didn't sugar-coat it just how I like it, or you put chocolate sauce on it instead of cherry, and you didn't get the frosting just how I like it".

A good story is not constituted of righteous views or having someone asserting factual superiority... A "good story" is just a story. Facts are facts. "Asserting factual superiority" is a loaded presumption.

- the Buddha of the Pali canon and other Buddhist writings are not like this either ????? You haven't read MN 38, have you?

[BCVB9SOc]

Right...but I still think pizza is Italian and not from New York.....and curry is Indian and not from the UK.... LOL

Quite. Sometimes accuracy does need to be asserted - gently though !

[Imihooniump]

Absolutely agree on that. It's more about an exchange of knowledge and experience, from which all can draw benefit.

Kind of difficult for all to benefit and to exchange knowledge and experience when one or two keep interjecting "But the world is flat! The world is flat!"

[gWhya5ct]

Kind of difficult for all to benefit and to exchange knowledge and experience when one or two keep interjecting "But the world is flat! The world is flat!"

Well, I'm none too keen on flat-worlders myself. Pics from space, whatever... they just won't have it!

[esdfsdflast]

Right...but I still think pizza is Italian and not from New York.....and curry is Indian and not from the UK.... LOL

Yeah, where something originates does not have to mean everything though - the best pizzas I have tasted were not made in Italy and I doubt that anyone individual could taste ever pizza ever made - does that mean we can not eat pizza? lol

[Mangoman]

"Asserting factual superiority" is in the eyes of the beholder. It does make for a convenient epithet when one wishes to ignore fact and cling to story-telling: "Oh, i won't listen to that fact because you didn't sugar-coat it just how I like it, or you put chocolate sauce on it instead of cherry, and you didn't get the frosting just how I like it".



A "good story" is just a story. Facts are facts. "Asserting factual superiority" is a loaded presumption.



You haven't read MN 38, have you?

Thanks for your further comments stuka - it is not about being gentle or sugar coating anything.

[Zs3ZASpA]

Originally Posted by plwk Right...but I still think pizza is Italian and not from New York.....and curry is Indian and not from the UK.... LOL

Yeah, where something originates does not have to mean everything though - the best pizzas I have tasted were not made in Italy and I doubt that anyone individual could taste ever pizza ever made - does that mean we can not eat pizza? lol Erm........isn't that going right off at a tangent from the main point though, Andy ?

[nobodyhere]

Hi Aloka, no more than the first two posts were !!! lol

[DarrenBent]

Thanks for your further comments stuka - it is not about being gentle or sugar coating anything.

Yeah its about blaming others for ones own unwillingness to face facts.

[Petwrenny]

Yeah its about blaming others for ones own unwillingness to face facts.

It is not necessary to make doctrinal positions about being a Buddhist. Buddhism is about seeing and understanding the natural laws that we all live by; the way things are and this isn't bound by cultural limitations and different approaches/ vehicles or conventions ( Theravada, Mahayana, TB etc ). Whatever term is used it is best seen as functional and used to describe rather than a position to take, something to attach to and become. Didactical posts on a discussion forum which purpote to have the one true understanding go against all that I know -the freedom to receive in our hearts that which resonates can be the final decider of what is useful and the onus is on each of us to practice in ways which will allow ourselves to be changed, to expand and grow - so blaming others doesn't get a look in - lol.

[Dilangfh]

It is not necessary to make doctrinal positions about being a Buddhist.

The Buddha himself laid out his own doctrine.

Buddhism is about seeing and understanding the natural laws that we all live by; the way things are and this isn't bound by cultural limitations and different approaches/ vehicles or conventions ( Theravada, Mahayana, TB etc ). Actually, it is about the teachings of the Buddha. Various conventions have sprung up that claim to add on to, or to contain "teachings" that were obviously not his, but all claim to trace back to the Buddha. There are plenty of other disciplines that concern themselves with seeing and understanding "natural laws", but few of them are "Buddhism.

Whatever term is used it is best seen as functional and used to describe rather than a position to take, something to attach to and become. The Buddha's teachings were not about "becoming attached to a position". But they weren't a matter of New-Age "just whatever you like".

Didactical posts on a discussion forum which purpote to have the one true understanding go against all that I know - "Didactical" is in the eyes of the beholder.

...the freedom to receive in our hearts that which resonates can be the final decider of what is useful and the onus is on each of us to practice in ways which will allow ourselves to be changed, to expand and grow So take whatever you like and call it "Budhdism".

- so blaming others doesn't get a look in - lol. The blaming comes in when one makes excuses: "he is 'asserting factual superiority' (whatever that is), so I will ignore the facts!"

[penpizdes]

The relevant fact is that we don't need to take doctrinal positions, browbeat or manipulate emotionally others and/or ourselves and call that " practicing Buddhism ". I am not seeking to limit myself to a particular viewpoint that I have been conditioned to anymore now than I was when I first started looking at Buddhism and meditating. You and I are at cross purposes stuka - as I tried to discuss with you ( not getting a response made that not possible ).

[Krruqgwt]

As I understand it, free investigation is the middle way between the extremes of a) blind faith and dogmatism and b) accepting and rejecting whatever you like.

We need to look beyond what is our opinion and belief currently.

From our experience and investigation we can then reject anything which, when accepted, practised and perfected to a degree, leads to more aversion, more craving, and more delusion. These practices are then found to be not beneficial and are best to be given up, or avoided.

Likewise, accept anything which, when accepted and practised, leads to contentment, unconditional love and gaining of knowledge as these things will allow us to continue to develop a happy and peaceful mind and continue to move forward in our practice.

From my experience and understanding of the Kalama Sutta this is how we decide what should be and should not be the spiritual practice.

[RozzyLiu]

Originally Posted by Andy ...the freedom to receive in our hearts that which resonates can be the final decider of what is useful and the onus is on each of us to practice in ways which will allow ourselves to be changed, to expand and grow

So take whatever you like and call it "Budhdism".

- so blaming others doesn't get a look in - lol.

The blaming comes in when one makes excuses: "he is 'asserting factual superiority' (whatever that is), so I will ignore the facts!"
I think its time to stop this exchange right here and now in order to try to show a little kindness and understanding.

This website is a place for sharing and friendship between practitioners, not for combat about who's the most Buddhist in their practice !


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[Accecyncphory]

Happy with that - no desire for combat or to start anything that will turn / lead to what you describe above Aloka -D

[tefraxKedWere]

The relevant fact is that we don't need to take doctrinal positions,

The Buddha took doctrinal positions.

...browbeat or manipulate emotionally others and/or ourselves and call that " practicing Buddhism ". Like I said, that is in the eye of the beholder. No one is browbeating you or manipulating you emotionally.

I am not seeking to limit myself to a particular viewpoint that I have been conditioned to anymore now than I was when I first started looking at Buddhism and meditating. You and I are at cross purposes stuka - as I tried to discuss with you ( not getting a response made that not possible ). When?

[outfinofulpv]

As I understand it, free investigation is the middle way between the extremes of a) blind faith and dogmatism and b) accepting and rejecting whatever you like.

Those aren't particularly opposites.

We need to look beyond what is our opinion and belief currently.

From our experience and investigation we can then reject anything which, when accepted, practised and perfected to a degree, leads to more aversion, more craving, and more delusion. These practices are then found to be not beneficial and are best to be given up, or avoided.

Likewise, accept anything which, when accepted and practised, leads to contentment, unconditional love and gaining of knowledge as these things will allow us to continue to develop a happy and peaceful mind and continue to move forward in our practice.

From my experience and understanding of the Kalama Sutta this is how we decide what should be and should not be the spiritual practice. That's not quite what the Buddha was saying in the Kalama Sutta.

[larentont]

...combat about who's the most Buddhist in their practice !

No one has claimed that it is.