[66paptroump]

The point of course is to distinguish between what the Buddha taught and what others attempt to stuff in his mouth.

Again, it seems tenuous to deny the Buddha taught things that were intended to be inferred by the listener as post-mortem rebirth

The Buddha taught two kinds of right view, of which one was mundane right view

You may refer to MN 60 and MN 117

[Feelundseenna]

... the dhammapada, which the Buddha did not teach.

how do you know?

as long as a teaching conforms with the main themes of the suttas, it is Buddhavaca

Neither of these is "cause-and-effect".

Yes. Neither of these is "cause-and-effect". But you previously asserted the claim that "causation becomes extinct" is utter nonsense

Then, monks, being subject myself to birth, seeing the drawbacks of birth, seeking the unborn, unexcelled rest from the yoke, Unbinding, I reached the unborn, unexcelled rest from the yoke: Unbinding. Being subject myself to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, seeing the drawbacks of aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, seeking the aging-less, illness-less, deathless, sorrow-less, unexcelled rest from the yoke, Unbinding, I reached the aging-less, illness-less, deathless, sorrow-less, unexcelled rest from the yoke: Unbinding. Knowledge & vision arose in me: 'Unprovoked is my release. This is the last birth. There is now no further becoming.'

Ariyapariyesana Sutta: The Noble Search

[ExpodoDop]

"The absolute" is quite vague. You could be talking about "union with Brahma" or "dying for Jeebus" or "getting really, really stoned".

At least for Buddhists, the meaning of the "absolute" seems clear...

Then, monks, being subject myself to birth, seeing the drawbacks of birth, seeking the unborn, unexcelled rest from the yoke, Unbinding, I reached the unborn, unexcelled rest from the yoke: Unbinding. Being subject myself to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, seeing the drawbacks of aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, seeking the aging-less, illness-less, deathless, sorrow-less, unexcelled rest from the yoke, Unbinding, I reached the aging-less, illness-less, deathless, sorrow-less, unexcelled rest from the yoke: Unbinding. Knowledge & vision arose in me: 'Unprovoked is my release. This is the last birth. There is now no further becoming.'

Ariyapariyesana Sutta: The Noble Search

[lorrieholdridge]

To assert "free will" is possibly tenuous. The behaviour of an arahant conforms to the Dhamma Law (Niyama).

....a "Law" which that arahant has chosen.

[P9CCd35R]

Again, it seems tenuous to deny the Buddha taught things that were intended to be inferred by the listener as post-mortem rebirth

Straw Man.

The Buddha taught two kinds of right view, of which one was mundane right view The former of which consisted of superstition-based views and teachings which preceded his own, and the latter of which consisted of his own liberative teachings that were unique to him.

You may refer to MN 60 and MN 117
Spoken like a true E-Sanghin.

[Poll Pitt]

....a "Law" which that arahant has chosen.

Definitely not, imo. The law is hard wired into the mind of the arahant, due to insight, imo

[Talicoabilk]

how do you know?

The same way that you know.

as long as a teaching conforms with the main themes of the suttas, it is Buddhavaca That is not how the Buddha taught the Four Great References.

Yes. Neither of these is "cause-and-effect". But you previously asserted the claim that "causation becomes extinct" is utter nonsense Indeed.

the unborn.....aging-less, illness-less, deathless, sorrow-less, unexcelled rest ..none of which means "cause and effect".

[JulietOreira]

The former of which consisted of superstition-based views and teachings which preceded his own...

Possibly. But it appears the Buddha chose to continue to impart these teachings himself, often in modified versions....

[Loonerisav]

..none of which means "cause and effect".

which is why your assertion was wrong...

[Seilehogshell]

At least for Buddhists, the meaning of the "absolute" seems clear...

It means different things for different folks who call themselves "Buddhist". For some it has nothing to do with the Nibbana that the Buddha taught.


....unexcelled rest from the yoke, Unbinding
..which for many means "getting off the reincarnation merry-go-round"..

You know these things. Why are you professing the E-Sangha party line?

[Accecyncphory]

Definitely not, imo. The law is hard wired into the mind of the arahant, due to insight, imo

If it is hard wired, it is by his own choice.

[Meerenuch]

..which for many means "getting off the reincarnation merry-go-round"..

You know these things. Why are you professing the E-Sangha party line?

The Buddha did not exhort all to try to get off what they believe to be the merry-go-round....

In fact, you seem to be asserting there actually is a merry-go-round

[VeniHemealm]

If it is hard wired, it is by his own choice.

As I said, definitely not, imo

It is not a matter of "choice"

Enlightenment is not a "choice"

It seems you are still following the Tiltbillings view that insight (enlightenment) can be taught & practised

Imo

[NanoKakadze]

Possibly. But it appears the Buddha chose to continue to impart these teachings himself, often in modified versions....

Again the E-Sangha party line. The fact that he used the beliefs of others as a starting point to sway them to his own teachings does not make them his own.

[Vcwdldva]

which is why your assertion was wrong...

You have shown nothing to support that.

[mitiaycatq]

The Buddha did not exhort all to try to get off what they believe to be the merry-go-round....

In fact, you seem to be asserting there actually is a merry-go-round

The quotation marks denote differently.

[flienianO]

As I said, definitely not, imo

It is not a matter of "choice"

Enlightenment is not a "choice"

Certainly it is.


It seems you are still following the Tiltbillings view that insight (enlightenment) can be taught & practised
Tiltbillings is your boyfriend, not mine.

[grubnismarl]

Again the E-Sangha party line. The fact that he used the beliefs of others as a starting point to sway them to his own teachings does not make them his own.

Non-sense

The suttas do not show the Buddha teaching "rebirth" centred teachings and then later instructing the 4NTs

The suttas are unambiguous. The suttas state the duty of a monk is to show their lay devotees "the path the heaven"

[Nurse_sero]

Tiltbillings is your boyfriend, not mine.

Tiltbillings is Aloka's boyfriend

[textarchive]

Certainly it is.

definitely not

we have been thru this before but you continue to assert the Tiltbillings Mahasi Sayadaw view

the Buddha said

For a person whose mind is concentrated, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I know & see things as they actually are.' It is in the nature of things that a person whose mind is concentrated knows & sees things as they actually are.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....002.than.html