[Filmania]

As far as I'm aware, the placebo effect is documented and is genuine - albeit not fully understood or repeatable under controlled conditions.

And, by their very nature, placebos will not work if the patient is aware that they're taking a placebo. The work needs to be done by the mind in the belief that they are receiving help.

This might account for the reported 'success' of homeopathic medicines, which contain no active ingredients.

Something similar might be at work through meditation. Even if it's as simple as the removal of mental dams, allowing the body to get on with its own maintenance rather than wasting precious energy and resources on the self-defeating practices of axiety, stress and worry.

or I could be talking out of my hat.

Pete

[BenWired306]

the placebo effect is documented and is genuine

This is true (BTW, it is unlawful to knowingly prescribe a placebo in the US, no what the reason, except in clinical studies). I wouldn't bet on a placebo to treat a serious underlying disease though (cancer, serious infections, etc). I think this fact also underscores the importance of "the mind" in maintaining health and equilibrium (perhaps via neurochemical mechanisms - endorphins, etc).

In most studies of antiinflammatory agents in rheumatoid arthritis, placebos yield positive results in roughly 30% of patients, very confusing given that RA is such a painful and debilitating disease.

[muBXvWIC]

Yes, meditation can cure desease... but, until now, we have to be aware that there are some brain conditions that need some medical help so to give some room for meditation to improve mental skills.

[BV6lwvXf]

I wouldn't bet on a placebo to treat a serious underlying disease though (cancer, serious infections, etc).

Hi plogsties,

We were posting at the same time,

I agree.

[feeshyLew]

Yes, meditation can cure desease...

Can it, Kaarine? How is it that great Buddhist teachers get very sick with different illnesses then?

[grattperret]

While it may be the case,(and l hope it is so) l would imagine that those who meditate are more likely to improve the quality of their lives,while sick. But for 'ordinary' folk this may be the extent of it.
Those that don't meditate,may have no training in controlling their mind,so are more likely to be subject to what ever aspect of their illness is mental.
I would suggest that sickness is not 'all in the mind'. But how we deal with it certainly is.

[soprofaxel]

Can it, Kaarine? How is it that great Buddhist teachers get very sick with different illnesses then?

Well, depends on what kind of disease we are talking about. I think, as I have said before, that there are some conditions that need medical help so to give room to meditation to produce health improvements in mood and some neuroinmmunological functions of our body.

[kazinopartnerkae]

I would suggest that sickness is not 'all in the mind'. But how we deal with it certainly is.

True.

[FateHostera]

Well, depends on what kind of disease we are talking about

Diabetes, heart disease, allergies, tuberculosis, cancer, flu, colds, allergies, gastro -intestinal infections etc etc

Meditation helps people to cope with the symptoms and onset of illness - but why did men who'd been meditating for most of their lives get the above illnesses?

[MgpojuWy]

Diabetes, heart disease, allergies, tuberculosis, cancer, flu, colds, allergies, gastro -intestinal infections etc etc

Ok, yes, those are just hard to tackle just with meditation. But medtiation can improve some health conditions and decrese the risk for some of them because of stress, isn't this true?

[FloareTraurne]

Ok, yes, those are just hard to tackle just with meditation. But medtiation can improve some health conditions and decrese the risk for some of them because of stress, isn't this true?

Oh sure, meditation definately reduces stress and in that way people can cope with their lives more effectively.

[DavidQD]

So maybe those many illnesses that are stress related can be modified,(favourable) or even reduced by meditation. Think l have read somewhere recently (again) that meditation is good for a person. As if we didn't already know.

[boltondd]

You put your faith in humorism, too? Or is a theory's age only a point in its favor if it comes from the Exotic OrientTM?

Way I see it, there's medicine that works and medicine which doesn't. It doesn't matter where it came from or how old it is; it can either be proven to work or it can't. When it comes to my health, I'll take things which can empirically demonstrate their efficacy, and when it comes to providing for the health care of others... there's something especially perverse and opportunistic about getting sick people's hopes pinned on approaches that have nothing to recommend them but their age and a satisfyingly mystical origin.

Refreshing. We definitely need people like you, Cobalt, who are quite prepared to dispel clouds of harmful mysticism, be they ever so aromatic.

[Breilopmil]

the plural of "anecdote" is not "data"

Is that your quote? It is definitely worthy of preserving for posterity.

[pertikuss]

Meditation is awesome, but I want to see some studies done with this particular indication. I will repeat: meditation is great. But when it starts getting suggested as some kind of medical treatment, it moves out of the realm of religious practice and into the realm of research where health care belongs. At that point we have to be willing to keep whatever works and throw out whatever doesn't, or else we are seriously going to get people killed.

You have expressed this the way it must be expressed, and I can think of no better formulation. This kind of thing does kill people and here is an example.

[usatramadolusa]

I have the good fortune of personally witnessing certain peoples' lives changed by these practices when so called "Western medicine" had said "that's about all we can do is give you this medication to deal with the pain" and so-forth. Actually brings a bit of a tear to my eye...For me that's all the "evidence" I need.

When conventional medicine cures someone, no one is surprised, though they may be delighted. When alternative medicine does so, it is trumpeted about precisely because it is rare. If we were to put together a score card on which kind of medicine is doing better, I know which side would be carrying more weight.

The fact that this kind of thing brings a tear to your eye literally makes me nauseous. So someone got better; are we also going to list all the numberless cases where alternative medicine failed to accomplish anything useful? No ... we would run the risk that kind of exposure to daylight might dispel our pleasant fantasies, wouldn't we.

[Quigoxito]

Excellent insights. Criticism: health care belongs in many more places than just in the realm of research...care for our own health involves daily behaviors just as testable by empirical method as hypothesis/null hypothesis testing, double-blind studies, etc.... "medical science" is an oxy-moron...physicians are not trained scientists...they're symptomatologists and their offices are pharmaceutical dispensaries...the only thing that's going to get people killed is dukkha

[ecosportpol_ru]

my acupuncturist calls it energy WORK

[moredasers]

it was the meditation effect BEFORE it was the placebo effect

[QqJamxqP]

Thanks to Aloka-D for posting this excellent topic. I suffer from a serious illness that causes chronic pain. My current reflections focus on dukkha & kamma: Dukkha because there is a known cure for that; and kamma because that involves testing my behaviors, their antecedents and their consequences in relationship to my stress/suffering/discomfort/pain. A process a find very useful and scientific. In terms of philosophy of science, I'm partial to (but not attached to) Paul Karl Feyerabend's anarchistic view of science. Finally, the kind(s) of meditation and what is meant by "cure" and "disease" need to be clarified per in general here and more importantly per instance/individual.
with metta, karuna & mudita