[fedordzen]

I found this 'No Future in a Parrot's Egg' article by Stephen Batchelor and wondered if there were any comments.


http://thenewhumanism.org/authors/stephen-batchelor/articles/no-future-in-a-parrot's-egg


At the moment I'm (occasionally) reading 'Confessions of a Buddhist Atheist' and unlike Stephen Batchelor fans, so far I'm finding it really boring and mediocre, and whilst I do agree with some - but not all - of his views, I'm not actually seeing any new or innovative ideas, nor am I particularly enjoying his writing style.

I do consider speculative talk about rebirth and 'other realms' to be irrelevant to my practice... but I'm not planning on giving up the Forest Tradition to be a Stephen Batchelor student any time soon !

Not a book that I'm keen to keep picking up again, to be honest.

[lE3l6Lgn]

I'm with him on this article. I think I found Batchelor to be more eye-opening than you did because of when I read it. When I read it, I had just had my first conversation on BWB about the fact that it's okay for me to call what I'm doing "dharma practice" without buying into metaphysical supernatural dogma like karma. I was still coming to realize that it was even acceptable to do what he's describing, and what so many people on BWB describe as their own dharma practice.

So perhaps the difference is that it was far newer to me; I only started talking to stuka very recently. =P

[Buincchotourbss]

Yes, I understand, Cobalt.

I came to realise that I could cut out all that stuff by a different route.

I was heavily involved offline with Tibetan Buddhism for years and never quite bonded with all the emphasis on karma and reincarnation - though a Tibetan teacher had confirmed to me that the 'realms' could be taken as mental states.

I came across the Forest Tradition teachings of the late Ajahn Chah about 3 or 4 years or so ago on the internet, and appreciated them greatly. Also,a little later, thanks to Element, I began to read some of the (controversial to some) teachings of Ajahn Buddhadasa. Eventually, I became intrigued by what Ajahn Sumedho had to say - and I noticed that over a period of time I had been gradually letting go of TB altogether.

I finally understood at some stage along the way that it wasn't necessary to believe in all the clutter and add-ons to be a practising Buddhist, or even to take a position one way or the other, no matter what others had to say to the contrary.

I also realised that I could investigate Ajahn Sumedho's clear and direct approach offline, and being able to have one-to-one conversation with him has been hugely inspiring.

Additionally, thanks again to Element's encouragement, at some point before that, I began reading the Pali Canon.


Woops, I'm going way off topic.... back to Stephen Batchelor !

[TriamiCaw]

Just 2 cents,

I really never felt comfortable with the Karma/Reincarnation stuff... seems that to practice from this perspective is not at all right and it is not a very wise attitude. Practice should be just because... because the Noble thing in our life is to develop the skills for Right View and thus to overcome dukkha, even if this is the only and last life.

K/R doctrine makes a subtle substitution of some sort of "a god" with the fear for it included, so to do good. It ends in the same frame of thought where is religion... do good or be a good person so to have a comfortable life. Some buddhists tell me... "oh this life I have had has been because some bad karma..." How do they know for sure... what if this is the good one ripening now...?

Is like being a good kid with dad so to have a reward. K/R doctrines works well with this kind of logic. K/R doctrines degrade what Buddha taught and set them into religious thought and makes more solid the identification of the self.

Sorry...

[tobaccoman]

hi dazzle, i'm not a fan but i do respect the fact that he certainly walked the walk (from tibet to korea). i believe he made his journey with a sincere and a good heart. he immersed himself deeply in two traditions. he's no dilettante and didn't come to his conclusions just by idle speculation. that being said, i pretty much agree with you. buddhadasa and ajahns chah and sumedho resonate with me as well. i was just wondering where you disagreed with him. i still like him but he's beginning to wax a bit pedantic.

mind if i recommend a book? "focused and fearless" by shaila catherine

best wishes,
inji

[Sertvfdnhgjk]

i was just wondering where you disagreed with him.

Hi Inji,

Have you read "Confessions of a Buddhist Atheist" yourself?

I can't really comment further than my remarks about the book in the OP because I don't pick it up very often and I'm only half way through it. I'll probably feel able to say more when I've finished reading it.

As far as Tibetan Buddhism is concerned there have certainly been other westerners who have followed the hippy trail to India, taken ordination, learned some Tibetan language and then continued their wandering again.

He's certainly not the first westerner to have sampled ordination in different traditions and then left because of a woman or other temptations.

The difference is that Stephen Batchelor just decided to make some money from his experiences and write about it.

Kind wishes,

Aloka

[b91ZmxzX]

In the minds of many Buddhists, such a disavowal would disqualify me from being considered a member of the faithful. They would find it puzzling, if not offensive, that I would even want to think of myself as a Buddhist. It would be comparable to someone denying the existence of God, then describing himself as a practising Muslim. For the pious, Buddhism is a religion like all the others, with its own share of weird and wonderful dogmas. It is certainly not my business, as a mere Western convert, to question truths that have been verified, again and again, by people far wiser and more accomplished than me. Instead, I should abandon the conceits of my ego and humbly acknowledge that I share in a far grander destiny extending over millions of lifetimes in myriad realms, compared to which our brief sojourn on this paltry planet pales to insignificance.
This stuck a thought with me. It is interesting how in Buddhism concepts such as afterlife etc can be debated and how someone can leave such notions out of the practice altogether and still be a follower of the Buddha. You cant really say the same for other religions (although I doubt Buddhism is one). For example its non-sensical to be a Christian and not believe in an afterlife