[AlexClips]

Buddhists happily chatting about how the pope should be arrested, that's beyond belief . ' I ' would of thought dedicating some merritt his way might help more than a court of law .

Hi Hurtgen,

Have you just joined the group in order to criticise us?


Do you really think "dedicating some merit" is going to stop young boys being sexually abused ?

[Lapsiks]

Are you sure that the pope is guilty of sexual abuse ?

The thread about the Pope was closed so that we could move on from that issue, Hurtgen. I suggest you read it all carefully.


We should nt be angry because the pope acts under the power of delusion , but for Buddha there go "I"
Nobody suggested that they were personally 'angry' either. That is simply your own interpretation. I'm not sure why you're writing 'I' in speech marks either. An understanding of anatta doesn't mean we shouldn't use 'I' at all when we're communicating with others.

[spoddersedpn]

Hurtgen, as a new member here, you may not be aware of the purpose of the "Beyond Belief" forum. It is for interchange of ideas based on members' own experience.

The truth of the Buddha's teachings is something that can be experienced by a sincere practitioner. Thus it does not have to be accepted within a belief system. This is why the discussions go Beyond Belief. Discussion can range beyond the teaching of established Buddhist traditions, and ideas can be expressed that might be inappropriate in any of the other forums.

If your experience of dedicating merit has a real effect that goes beyond belief and provides tangible help to someone, then please share your experience with us here. This is the right place to show us what can be achieved, and some of us may learn from the discussion.

W.

[discountviagraman]

Hurtgen, as a new member here, you may not be aware of the purpose of the "Beyond Belief" forum. It is for interchange of ideas based on members' own experience.

Yes please also take a moment to read the guidelines for this forum, thanks.

[Stoottnoiciek]

I will , and please be patient with me , thank's Aloka-D .

For sure !

[outsitWrord]

As far as I know, no one here has achieved Nibbana, Hurtgen, so it is to be expected that our speech may not always be as "Right" as that of the Buddha. Nonetheless, our intentions are good, and we are seriously devoted to the goal, and seriously devoted to doing what we can to help others toward the goal. Forgive us our deficiencies. We will try to do the same with you. Welcome to the group.

[trorseIrripsy]

We should nt be angry because the pope acts under the power of delusion , but for Buddha there go "I"

Welcome Hurtgen

I would say voicing concern is not anger.

The Buddha taught three trainings, not one. The Buddha taught non-harming, concentration and insight (emptiness).

There is a social expectation the Pope act with more decisiveness.

My impression is the Pope is a little "lost" in the Christian doctrine of forgiveness, often in the same way some Buddhists become a little lost in the Buddhist doctrine of emptiness.

At least in the Buddha's Vinaya, if a monk commits sexual intercourse, they are disrobed. At least in the Buddha's Sangha, transgressions of the monks & nuns are not covered up.

Similarly, Jesus said, whoever harms a child, it is better for than person to have a millstone tied to their neck and they be cast into the sea.

Although forgiveness & abiding in emptiness do not allow anger to arise, they are not inactive. Forgiveness & abiding in emptiness still take appropriate action when human beings are being harmed.

If the Pope has acted to cover up crimes of sexual abuse, certainly he should not be treated in a manner different than the common law of society.

Kind regards

E

[RilmAlime67]

Also I am sure your intentions come from simply remembering the Buddha .

Friend,

If a monk from the Sangha sexually abused anyone, the Buddha expelled them from the Sangha.

Best wishes

E



Pārājika: Rules entailing expulsion from the Sangha (Defeat)
1. Should any bhikkhu — participating in the training and livelihood of the bhikkhus, without having renounced the training, without having declared his weakness — engage in sexual intercourse, even with a female animal, he is defeated and no longer in affiliation.

1. Should any bhikkhunī willingly engage in sexual intercourse, even with a male animal, she is defeated and no longer in affiliation.

Vinaya

[Symnunidanimb]

I remember Ajahn Brahm saying that the worst thing the Buddha would ever say to an errant monastic was, "misguided man!" Even before I started trying to follow the Dhamma, I had often heard it was a gentle path. It is amazing to compare my knowledge of Buddhism then to my knowledge of the Dhamma now, and to see how far I have come. We are fortunate beyond comprehension to live in a time when the Dhamma is available.

[myspacecoo]

I enjoy your posts very much , thank's .

Thank you. May I remain humble in the face of praise.

these degenerate times

I think all times contain degenerateness equally. The nature of the world is that it generates Dukkha.

do you think The buddha threw out those acting under delusion , is there evidence ?

If I had time at the moment, I would try to find an instance in the Suttas. Perhaps one with a more intimate knowledge of the Suttas can answer.

[KahiroSamo]

Perhaps one with a more intimate knowledge of the Suttas can answer.

I think Element might be the person with the most knowledge of the suttas in the group, though I may be wrong of course .


As for #15 from Hurtgen - do you think The buddha threw out those acting under delusion , is there evidence ?
I don't understand..what does that mean exactly ? His monks ? What kind of 'delusion ' ?

[Mangoman]

Oh I see now, thanks Hurtgen. It wasn't clear to me that you were speaking to Snowmelt about the quote from the Vinaya in Elements post.

[pavelChe]

use of ' I ' that is because ' I ' don't know what " I " ' I ' am

[Assungusa]

What's MB?

[Inconykic]

Thanks.

[WhileKelf]

Buddhists happily chatting about how the pope should be arrested, that's beyond belief . ' I ' would of thought dedicating some merritt his way might help more than a court of law .

The Buddha is recorded to have advised a general in the army that a criminal who is being executed should be grateful; his bad kamma is being thus removed. The Buddha was clear about obedience to laws and respect for secular punishment for breaking them.

The pope continues to cover up and obstruct justice on a global scale. This is a crime in every instance.

[Grorointeri]

Have you made your own investigations , and I don't mean via you tube . Have you considered all the evidence .

Might be an idea to read that other thread properly, Hurtgen, as I already advised #3. Also it might be a good idea to also talk to people who are/have been Catholics before you yourself start judging.

It was me who started the thread about the Pope by the way - oh and I know quite a lot of Catholics and have met some very nice Catholic priests. Obviously they're not all the same. However I know from my own childhood that people spoke about priests who were meant to be celibate getting young women pregnant or abusing small boys - and then just being moved to another parish by their superiors. Of course the Pope is responsible for his clergy !

I'm not intending that more discussion about the Pope should be opened up again after the other thread was closed, by the way, Hurtgen, so you'll have to discuss something else with Stuka instead, I'm afraid....even though you started up this other thread, I can close it also.

I suggest you also re-read this thread as well as the other one.


Kind regards,

Aloka-D

[irrehoobe]

I think you will notice I have avoided subject untill Stuka brought it out using a quote from my self .

Actually one of the first things you did when coming to this website was to start this thread criticising the one about the Pope, Hurtgen.

Stuka was simply quoting your first post in the thread when he joined the discussion.


There is no need to clash Aloka-D , we see things through differing views
Erm...again, I wasn't the one who started this thread, Hurtgen. You are the one making judgements.... I think you should read what Element had to say #11 and #12 again, and then I really think its time to just let it go now.

I don't see any benefit in continuing further, so I am closing the thread in my role as forum manager.

Lets all move on to something else now. Thanks.

[wllsqyuipknczx]

Stuka , a verdict that demands evidence . It might be that you pay too much attention to the media , I'm guessing the media are enjoying the financial benefits of giving the story legs .

Excuse me? You get whatever information you do from the same sort of "media" as I do. The pope does not wish to have an audience with me, and wouldn't admit the truth to me, any more than he does anyone else, if he did.

If you don't see something first-hand, any information you get about it comes from "the media".

Have you made your own investigations

Yes.

and I don't mean via you tube

You underestimate me greatly.

Have you considered all the evidence

All the evidence I have seen, yes. You have no no idea of my background.

Are you fit to judge another

Quite, yes.

the Pope being no different to you or I

I wouldn't say that at all.

wants only to be free from suffering

Apparently not, considering the things he does to inflict suffering on so many through his position.

suffering the same fate as the rest of us to be deluded , until we find Buddha

The pope thinks the Buddha and all Buddhists are going to his Hell.

I do not see "delusion" as being a black-or white, all-or-none state. I consider such notions to be the product of deluded, i.e., distorted, thinking.

I think you will notice I have avoided subject untill Stuka brought it out using a quote from my self

Um, that is your name on the first post in this thread, right...?