[@Aerodyno@]

dear Theravada forum

i apologise if my deliberately provocative thread title may appear to be insensitive. my intention in having such a thread title is to draw attention to the Assu Sutta

the Assu Sutta seems to be a favourite amongst reincarnationists & rebirthers in asserting Buddha taught literal rebirth

in fact, some go so far, such as translator Thanissaro, to include the word 'transmigration' in the sutta, even though devoted rebirthers, such as Bhikkhu Bodhi, do not use such an alien term & simply stick to the Pali samsara (which means to 'cycle round')

but often, on chatsites, one will read threads requesting: "Please pray for my father; pray for my mother; pray for my cat", etc

in the light of this common grief & hope in respect to the departed, even amongst Buddhists, does the Assu Sutta aim to reinforce reincarnation/rebirth beliefs? Or does it aim to quench the common suffering of grief?




From an inconstruable beginning comes samsara. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are roaming & wandering on.

Long have you experienced the death of a mother. The tears you have shed over the death of a mother while roaming & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — are greater than the water in the four great oceans.

Long have you experienced the death of a father... the death of a brother... the death of a sister... the death of a son... the death of a daughter... loss with regard to relatives... loss with regard to wealth... loss with regard to disease. The tears you have shed over loss with regard to disease while roaming & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — are greater than the water in the four great oceans.

Why is that? From an inconstruable beginning comes samsara. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are roaming & wandering on. Long have you thus experienced stress, experienced pain, experienced loss, swelling the cemeteries — enough to become disenchanted with all fabricated things, enough to become dispassionate, enough to be released.

Assu Sutta: Tears

[PWRichard]

in the light of this common grief & hope in respect to the departed, even amongst Buddhists, does the Assu Sutta aim to reinforce reincarnation/rebirth beliefs? Or does it aim to quench the common suffering of grief? I think it could be quite frightening to read - so maybe its pointing towards letting go and practising rather than reinforcing beliefs.

[assohillA]

I think it could be quite frightening to read - so maybe its pointing towards letting go and practising rather than reinforcing beliefs.

yes, it seems that way, as it says: "become disenchanted with all fabricated things...become dispassionate...be released."

[easypokergonj]

in the light of this common grief & hope in respect to the departed, even amongst Buddhists, does the Assu Sutta aim to reinforce reincarnation/rebirth beliefs? Or does it aim to quench the common suffering of grief?

What a coincidence... this sutta was one of the first ones when I started to explore Gotama's teachings. I never felt something about rebirth/reincarnation but to give up useless attachments that brings Dukkha.

The imagine that this sutta provoked was that of a life lived in darkness -ignorance- and realizing it and saying: enough about this! and giving up all that stuff of clinging and craving and reinforcing the need to practice Gotama's liberating doctrine.

[oneliRafmeene]

Hi everyone! In my view, we must do all we can to discourage the notion of "praying" amongst our fellow Buddhists, as this isn't our way. My teacher, Ajahn Chah, often lamented about the lack of true Buddhist understanding and cultivation in such practices, such as praying for wealth, health, etc., and I have witnessed the same habits. This "tough love" should be part of our bodhisattva arsenal, because in our teaching it's the Truth. Happy cultivating, Tom