[posimoka]

dear Theravadin fundamentalists, Pali sutta thumpers and Agama scholars

i have noticed recently a Theravadin scholarly focus on & seeming intent to impart authority upon the Chinese Agamas, most noteably by Bhikkhus Sujato and Analayo

yesterday I read my first Chinese Agamas and was not impressed

for example, the Agama Dharmacakra Pravartana Sūtra I read (assuming the translation is correct) does not eludicate what suffering, it causes, its cessation and the path actually are.

this translation or sutra does not include 'attachment to the five aggregates', 'craving', 'cessation of craving', 'the 8FP', etc.

so of what use is the sutra if it does not outline what the individual Noble Truths actually are? how can they be known & practised?

or today, i read the Agama version of MN 117, which, from a practical viewpoint, makes no sense at all because it does not actually offer the means of practise. it omits the supramundane right view of the Four Noble Truths and infers transcendent (noble) concentration and liberation can be developed by honoring mother & father, doing good karma, etc

similarly, the Anapanasmrti Sutra, whilst being very poetic and visual, has some crucial omissions and does not follow the sixteen stage unfolding

these Agamas appear to have crucial (practical) omissions, typical of 2nd hand transmission errors or 'Chinese whispers'

for me, they make the Buddha look like a very sloppy guru

any comments?

[geniusxs81]

Thank you for the warm and wide welcome Element, I am now looking at these, for the first time

[Opperioav]

Oh. My. Buddha.

No wonder these abhidhammists are so screwed up.

The first sutta doesn't say anything at all, apart from repeating the same phrase over and over again.

I wonder if it is this bogus agama version that TNH is referring to in his book "Heart of the Buddha's Teaching" that I quote in the mahavajrya forum. And is this what our mahavajrya friends are referring to when they talk about the Buddha's first sutta? Are all of the agamas so devoid of the Dhamma?

That would explain a great deal.

[ivandiadser]

Is probably just me, but the agama has very Zen feel to it.

Stuka, why did u say that abhidhammists are so screwed. Is abhidhamma derived from agamas?

[CedssypeEdids]

Hi haplo, it might be worth noting that post #3 was made nearly 4 months ago, so you might not necessarily get a reply to your question.