[scewDeasp]

I saw this sutta mentioned somewhere - and thought I'd post it here to see if anyone
had anything to say about it.



AN 9.31 -Anupubbanirodha Sutta: Step-by-step Stopping


"Monks, there are these nine step-by-step stoppings. Which nine?

"When one has attained the first jhāna, the perception of sensuality has been stopped.

When one has attained the second jhāna, directed thoughts & evaluations [verbal fabrications] have been stopped.

When one has attained the third jhāna, rapture has been stopped.

When one has attained the fourth jhāna, in-and-out breaths [bodily fabrications] have been stopped.

When one has attained the dimension of the infinitude of space, the perception of forms has been stopped.

When one has attained the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, the perception of the dimension of the infinitude of space has been stopped.

When one has attained the dimension of nothingness, the perception of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness has been stopped.

When one has attained the dimension of neither-perception nor non-perception, the perception of the dimension of nothingness has been stopped.

When one has attained the cessation of perception & feeling, perceptions & feelings [mental fabrications] have been stopped.

"These are the nine step-by-step stoppings."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....031.than.html

[tomsmuidh]

perceptions & feelings =/= mental fabrications

[zlopikanikanzax]

What does this mean?

When one has attained the fourth jhāna, in-and-out breaths [bodily fabrications] have been stopped.
Does it mean breathing becomes unnoticeable ?

[NodePark]

probably

in-and-out breaths =/= bodily fabrications

in-and-out breaths = bodily fabricator

[Kuncher]

What does this mean?


When one has attained the fourth jhāna, in-and-out breaths [bodily fabrications] have been stopped.

Does it mean breathing becomes unnoticeable ? Hi A-D,
It means you stop diaphragm breathing.
May you be happy.
bucky

[Anydayhybeall]

It means you stop diaphragm breathing.

Could you elaborate further and give a source of this information, please?

[BrifsGefel]

Could you elaborate further and give a source of this information, please?

Hi A-D,
Sure. I don't know if you consider personal experience a source, but that's how I know. Diaphragm breathing is not the only way for your body to get oxygen. The skin also breathes. I think I have physiological sources if you're still curious.
May you be well.
bucky

[moohassinny]

I don't know if you consider personal experience a source, but that's how I know.

Thanks for personally declaring you are a non-returner.

[TSVIDeo]

It means you stop diaphragm breathing.

However, many meditators believe they have stopped breathing when in fact their minds have sloth & torpor. Their minds are too unclear to be aware of the breathing. These meditators then run around declaring they personally have attained the 4th jhana.

Pages 165 - 167 of this book discuss this misperception.

[Lxbsvksl]

Could you elaborate further and give a source of this information, please?

Hi Aloka,
In the section on "Jhana," Ajaan Lee gives a standard explanation in his book Keeping the Breath In Mind:

4. The fourth jhana.... The breath property is absolutely quiet, free from ripples, crosscurrents, and gaps.... The breath, which forms the present, is still, like the ocean or air when they are free from currents or waves.... The mind is neutral and still; the breath, neutral and still; past, present, and future are all neutral and still. This is true singleness of preoccupation, focused on the unperturbed stillness of the breath. All parts of the breath in the body connect so that you can breathe through every pore. You don't have to breathe through the nostrils, because the in-and-out breath and the other aspects of the breath in the body form a single, unified whole.... http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/t...ind.html#jhana Ajaan Geoff (Thanissaro Bhikkhu) and Gil Fronsdal also speak of it frequently when they teach anapanasati.
May you feel safe.
bucky

[kiosokkn]

Hi Aloka,
In the section on "Jhana...

OK, thanks for giving a reference.

[ddxbovMQ]

Pages 165 - 167 of this book discuss this misperception.

Page 168 also seems relevant.

[ferelrossi]

Sometimes, you "feel like" the breathing has stopped when your awareness of the breath goes off even slightly. As most of you already know, as you meditate, the breath becomes shorter and smoother and it becomes increasingly challenging to focus on this ever so slight breath. At that stage, if your mind moves from the breath even slightly, you lose your meditation object. Losing the meditation object is a common problem, at least for me. Sometimes meditators, specially if you are a beginner, perceive this incorrectly as if the breathing has stopped and you have entered higher absorption when in fact you haven't. It happens because your mindfulness has slipped.

[Kneedycrype]

Sometimes, you "feel like" the breathing has stopped when your awareness of the breath goes off even slightly. As most of you already know, as you meditate, the breath becomes shorter and smoother and it becomes increasingly challenging to focus on this ever so slight breath. At that stage, if your mind moves from the breath even slightly, you lose your meditation object. Losing the meditation object is a common problem, at least for me. Sometimes meditators, specially if you are a beginner, perceive this incorrectly as if the breathing has stopped and you have entered higher absorption when in fact you haven't. It happens because your mindfulness has slipped.

Yes, I was to make a similar comment from my experience .... focusing on the breath differs from analysing our breathing - lol.

[Storwaytozy]

focusing on the breath differs from analysing our breathing - lol.

Absolutely. It's more like an awareness. If there is mental articulation like: "Is this a long or short, subtle or coarse breath? Am I in xyz jhana now?" It's a sure indication that jhana is not present.

[PareKeect]

Sri, have you read Buddhadasa Bhikkhu's book Anapanasati: Mindfulness with Breathing? I mean the full version, most of which is at Buddhanet in . pdf format?

[sasaderesada]

Sri, have you read Buddhadasa Bhikkhu's book Anapanasati: Mindfulness with Breathing? I mean the full version, most of which is at Buddhanet in . pdf format?

Do you recomend it stuka? Yesteday I downloaded it.

[Moupponge]

Yes. The last four chapters are missimg from that, but I can dig them up for you.

[Taunteefrurge]

Yes. The last four chapters are missimg from that, but I can dig them up for you.

Thanks stuka!

[leahjhburton]

Sri, have you read Buddhadasa Bhikkhu's book Anapanasati: Mindfulness with Breathing? I mean the full version, most of which is at Buddhanet in . pdf format?

A long time ago, along with many other (varied) accounts by numerous authors. I have also found the suttas to be very helpful. Do you have any particular point in mind?