[Obebtetibre]

I generally like the translations at metta.lk than accesstoinsight.org or Bhikku bhodi's but recently I looked at this sutta in AN and feel that the translation is way off the mark at metta.lk. Maybe I am missing something

So, the pali states : Bhavanirodho nibbànam

Bhikku bodhi translates it as "Nibbaha is the cessation of becomming" which seems fine until he goes on to add his own commentary that Bhava means existence and since cessation of existence does not make sense since sariputta is still alive (??) so this has to mean stopping rebirth.

accesstoinsight.org translates this as "The cessation of becoming — Unbinding". Why is it referring to Nibbhana as unbinding rather than just saying Nibbhana?
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....007.than.html

metta.lk translates this as "Cessation of being is extinction". What is that supposed to mean?

Makes me wonder if I have understood the sutta incorrectly. From what I understand, Sariputta is saying that Nibbhana is the cessation of self-identification arising in the mind. So "cessation of becomming" is an appropriate translation.

What do you think?

[Old-old-Ivy]

Bodhi is an unrepentant abhidhammic reincarnationist (though he euphemizes it "rebirth"), and occasionally it shows through in his translations. Thanissaro is too, but the hard-line doesn't seem to show through as much in his work. He does have the annoying habit of injecting his pet doctrinal oddities into his translations, though, which is why we see all the " Unbindings", "Clinging/Sustenance-s", and other silly contrivances in his translations. All this comes, I think, from his analogies in his book "Mind like Fire Unbound", in which he likens Nibbana to releasing a fire from the fuel it is "clinging" to.

You read the Sutta right. The problem is that there are so many Brahmins out there running around in "Buddhist suits".


I see Brahmins...They walk around like everyone else...they don't even know they are Brahmins....LOL....

[Suentiend]

Bhikku bodhi translates it as "Nibbaha is the cessation of becomming" which seems fine until he goes on to add his own commentary that Bhava means existence and since cessation of existence does not make sense since sariputta is still alive (??) so this has to mean stopping rebirth.

Very odd conclusion BB has arrived at there. Surely he can see the contradiction in his use of the word "existence" after he's already translated it as becoming?

As I have no knowledge of Pali, I'm looking forward to seeing what others have to say about it.

[mirex]

Bodhi is an unrepentant abhidhammic reincarnationist [...]

Stuka... which sutta translators are, in your experience, recommendable, please?

[Dokescoonse]

I would recommend setting as many different translations of any given Sutta I would want to study side by side, and comparing them all against each other and the Pali. Bodhi's and Thanissaro's are both very good, but one has to keep an eye out for the abhidhammic influence and assumptions. Bodhi at least acknowledges a lot of his spinning in his notes, which I recommend paying close attention to. Also, one can see how heavily he relies on Buddhaghosa and the commentaries in his notes as well. Makes it a lot easier to separate the wheat from the chaff.

[alex_loudermilk]

Thanks stuka!

[abossakon]

Thanks Stuka

I avoid Boddhi's translations whenever I can because when you read his stuff you always have to be on the edge, expecting misinterpretations distorting the whole message of the sutta. metta.lk is so far the best I have come across online.