Team orders - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**gooseCile** · 08-31-2010, 09:09 AM

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...e-is-on-Webber

“It is not something McLaren ever do,” said Hamilton, “and I agree with it. The rate which we needed to develop as a team, I think if they’re giving me 100 per cent and they’re giving Jenson 100 per cent then we’re going to improve twice as fast. I’ve just got to continue doing my job. while reading this i remembered Monaco 2007
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/6696391.stm
Englishman Hamilton was impressive on his debut at one of Formula One's most demanding tracks, and might have won had team orders not intervened.

**dolaBeetCeage** · 08-31-2010, 09:16 AM

Oh, give me a break!

Alonso had the better measure of Hamilton at Monaco in 2007.

Pretty cut-and-dried buddy.

**gooseCile** · 08-31-2010, 09:21 AM

Oh, give me a break!

Alonso had the better measure of Hamilton at Monaco in 2007.

Pretty cut-and-dried buddy.

lewis was the one in 2007 that said that he could have won if it was not for team orders this is only 3 years ago

It is not something McLaren ever do did they not do it 3 years ago

**dolaBeetCeage** · 08-31-2010, 09:26 AM

lewis was the one in 2007 that said that he could have won if it was not for team orders this is only 3 years ago

It is not something McLaren ever do did they not do it 3 years ago

All teams have team orders. Pretty naive to think otherwise.

That silly rule hasn't changed a damned thing. Also, I think this is when Hamilton was pretty immature (being a whiny little *beep*) and lost the race on equal footing to Alonso. I think Hamilton just blurted some crap into the mic out of frustration.

**sleelverrex** · 08-31-2010, 11:28 AM

It is not something McLaren ever did - past

It is not something McLaren ever do - present

It is not something McLaren will ever do - future

Sounds to me like he's talking about this years team philosophy.

**Sarbrienna** · 08-31-2010, 12:41 PM

It is very simple - If you don't want team orders then it is one car per team. What is sooooooooo hard about this. You will never get rid of team orders and I would probably have fired Massa for making it so obvious.

**betraaaus** · 08-31-2010, 03:48 PM

Saying "its something Mclaren never do" is very different to saying "its something Mclaren never did"..The word "do" can be present tense, and does not suggest this philosophy has a start date lol.

We all know teams make decisions which are the best for the team at certain points and at a track where its highly likely that a rookie dicing with a WDC is going to end in tears is a prime example. Had Ferrari told Fernando to hold position in Germany and not risk both Ferrari's races rather than ordering Massa to pull over, I think the hysteria would have been alot less aggressive. Whats a waste of a thread, and theres only one way this thread will end up and thats closed.

**Siffidiolla** · 08-31-2010, 05:45 PM

theres only one way this thread will end up and thats closed.

Turn out the light when it is closed please!

**sitescools** · 08-31-2010, 07:07 PM

Saying "its something Mclaren never do" is very different to saying "its something Mclaren never did"..The word "do" can be present tense, and does not suggest this philosophy has a start date lol.

We all know teams make decisions which are the best for the team at certain points and at a track where its highly likely that a rookie dicing with a WDC is going to end in tears is a prime example. Had Ferrari told Fernando to hold position in Germany and not risk both Ferrari's races rather than ordering Massa to pull over, I think the hysteria would have been alot less aggressive. Whats a waste of a thread, and theres only one way this thread will end up and thats closed.

From the first post I understand it's "ever", like in “It is not something McLaren ever do,” and "ever" seems to mean "at all times" or "always"... but really now... even tabloids take sentences out of context to make a headline... most of the time.

And I agree... Ferrari should shoot itself in the leg just for the sake of the hysterical people, it's quite important to make other team's fans happy

**sitescools** · 08-31-2010, 07:10 PM

Do the rules permit team orders when one pilot is out of the wdc fight?

**Siffidiolla** · 08-31-2010, 08:01 PM

Do the rules permit team orders when one pilot is out of the wdc fight?

Nope.

Not unless the driver makes the decision to assist his teammate of his own accord.

**sitescools** · 08-31-2010, 08:41 PM

Massa moved out of the way on his own accord.

So basically this huge hypocrite named Horner is saying that it's to early to break the rules... but it;s going to happen in the end. Come on hysterical people... start banging your heads to the wall... anybody?

**markkisil** · 08-31-2010, 08:41 PM

Do the rules permit team orders when one pilot is out of the wdc fight?

Like said above its NO.

But personally I feel team orders should be completely up to the team once one driver is mathematically out the the title race, otherwise the team could miss out on maybe there only ever title potentially.

Say Red Bull are never in this position again (as unlikley as that is), they would be pretty angry if one beat the other in a dominant 1,2 and the 2nd lost the title by a point.

**Siffidiolla** · 08-31-2010, 09:09 PM

Massa moved out of the way on his own accord.

So basically this huge hypocrite named Horner is saying that it's to early to break the rules... but it;s going to happen in the end. Come on hysterical people... start banging your heads to the wall... anybody?

After being ordered to do so via the use of coded message.

**Affiltavajefe** · 08-31-2010, 09:16 PM

There is a big difference between determining at the start of the race that one driver will finish ahead of another, or asking a driver to move over; which is what Hamilton was talking about. And the situation in Monaco where the team tells their drivers not to race each other as they'd risk taking each other out.

**Poll Pitt** · 08-31-2010, 09:17 PM

Massa moved out of the way on his own accord.

So basically this huge hypocrite named Horner is saying that it's to early to break the rules... but it;s going to happen in the end. Come on hysterical people... start banging your heads to the wall... anybody?

Aha...but then you can argue that you can still give preference and all possible advantages to one driver over the other without ever having to issue a race-changing order.

**Affiltavajefe** · 08-31-2010, 09:18 PM

And then we've seen the situation in the past where you have one driver on a three stopper and one driver doing two stops. The team mate doing two stops lets the three stopper go past because he's not really racing him, and he's told to do so by the team. Is that team orders too?

**Siffidiolla** · 08-31-2010, 09:36 PM

And then we've seen the situation in the past where you have one driver on a three stopper and one driver doing two stops. The team mate doing two stops lets the three stopper go past because he's not really racing him, and he's told to do so by the team. Is that team orders too?

Nah, that's common sense!

**sitescools** · 08-31-2010, 11:53 PM

Aha...but then you can argue that you can still give preference and all possible advantages to one driver over the other without ever having to issue a race-changing order.

Yes... like it seemed to be the case at RBR in Hungary for instance... didn´t work out eventually... that felt good.

**gooseCile** · 09-08-2010, 03:49 PM

it would be a bit unfair for Ferrari to get docked points
and McLaren get away with the save fuel in Turkey

08-31-2010, 09:09 AM	#1
gooseCile Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 563 Senior Member	Team orders http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...e-is-on-Webber “It is not something McLaren ever do,” said Hamilton, “and I agree with it. The rate which we needed to develop as a team, I think if they’re giving me 100 per cent and they’re giving Jenson 100 per cent then we’re going to improve twice as fast. I’ve just got to continue doing my job. while reading this i remembered Monaco 2007 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/6696391.stm Englishman Hamilton was impressive on his debut at one of Formula One's most demanding tracks, and might have won had team orders not intervened. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-31-2010, 09:16 AM	#2
dolaBeetCeage Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 675 Senior Member	Oh, give me a break! Alonso had the better measure of Hamilton at Monaco in 2007. Pretty cut-and-dried buddy. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-31-2010, 09:21 AM	#3
gooseCile Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 563 Senior Member	Oh, give me a break! Alonso had the better measure of Hamilton at Monaco in 2007. Pretty cut-and-dried buddy. lewis was the one in 2007 that said that he could have won if it was not for team orders this is only 3 years ago It is not something McLaren ever do did they not do it 3 years ago Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-31-2010, 09:26 AM	#4
dolaBeetCeage Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 675 Senior Member	lewis was the one in 2007 that said that he could have won if it was not for team orders this is only 3 years ago It is not something McLaren ever do did they not do it 3 years ago All teams have team orders. Pretty naive to think otherwise. That silly rule hasn't changed a damned thing. Also, I think this is when Hamilton was pretty immature (being a whiny little beep) and lost the race on equal footing to Alonso. I think Hamilton just blurted some crap into the mic out of frustration. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-31-2010, 11:28 AM	#5
sleelverrex Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 460 Senior Member	It is not something McLaren ever did - past It is not something McLaren ever do - present It is not something McLaren will ever do - future Sounds to me like he's talking about this years team philosophy. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-31-2010, 12:41 PM	#6
Sarbrienna Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 377 Senior Member	It is very simple - If you don't want team orders then it is one car per team. What is sooooooooo hard about this. You will never get rid of team orders and I would probably have fired Massa for making it so obvious. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-31-2010, 03:48 PM	#7
betraaaus Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 425 Senior Member	Saying "its something Mclaren never do" is very different to saying "its something Mclaren never did"..The word "do" can be present tense, and does not suggest this philosophy has a start date lol. We all know teams make decisions which are the best for the team at certain points and at a track where its highly likely that a rookie dicing with a WDC is going to end in tears is a prime example. Had Ferrari told Fernando to hold position in Germany and not risk both Ferrari's races rather than ordering Massa to pull over, I think the hysteria would have been alot less aggressive. Whats a waste of a thread, and theres only one way this thread will end up and thats closed. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-31-2010, 05:45 PM	#8
Siffidiolla Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 562 Senior Member	theres only one way this thread will end up and thats closed. Turn out the light when it is closed please! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-31-2010, 07:07 PM	#9
sitescools Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 615 Senior Member	Saying "its something Mclaren never do" is very different to saying "its something Mclaren never did"..The word "do" can be present tense, and does not suggest this philosophy has a start date lol. We all know teams make decisions which are the best for the team at certain points and at a track where its highly likely that a rookie dicing with a WDC is going to end in tears is a prime example. Had Ferrari told Fernando to hold position in Germany and not risk both Ferrari's races rather than ordering Massa to pull over, I think the hysteria would have been alot less aggressive. Whats a waste of a thread, and theres only one way this thread will end up and thats closed. From the first post I understand it's "ever", like in “It is not something McLaren ever do,” and "ever" seems to mean "at all times" or "always"... but really now... even tabloids take sentences out of context to make a headline... most of the time. And I agree... Ferrari should shoot itself in the leg just for the sake of the hysterical people, it's quite important to make other team's fans happy Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-31-2010, 07:10 PM	#10
sitescools Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 615 Senior Member	Do the rules permit team orders when one pilot is out of the wdc fight? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-31-2010, 08:01 PM	#11
Siffidiolla Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 562 Senior Member	Do the rules permit team orders when one pilot is out of the wdc fight? Nope. Not unless the driver makes the decision to assist his teammate of his own accord. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-31-2010, 08:41 PM	#12
sitescools Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 615 Senior Member	Massa moved out of the way on his own accord. So basically this huge hypocrite named Horner is saying that it's to early to break the rules... but it;s going to happen in the end. Come on hysterical people... start banging your heads to the wall... anybody? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-31-2010, 08:41 PM	#13
markkisil Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 461 Senior Member	Do the rules permit team orders when one pilot is out of the wdc fight? Like said above its NO. But personally I feel team orders should be completely up to the team once one driver is mathematically out the the title race, otherwise the team could miss out on maybe there only ever title potentially. Say Red Bull are never in this position again (as unlikley as that is), they would be pretty angry if one beat the other in a dominant 1,2 and the 2nd lost the title by a point. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-31-2010, 09:09 PM	#14
Siffidiolla Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 562 Senior Member	Massa moved out of the way on his own accord. So basically this huge hypocrite named Horner is saying that it's to early to break the rules... but it;s going to happen in the end. Come on hysterical people... start banging your heads to the wall... anybody? After being ordered to do so via the use of coded message. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-31-2010, 09:16 PM	#15
Affiltavajefe Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 405 Senior Member	There is a big difference between determining at the start of the race that one driver will finish ahead of another, or asking a driver to move over; which is what Hamilton was talking about. And the situation in Monaco where the team tells their drivers not to race each other as they'd risk taking each other out. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

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08-31-2010, 09:17 PM	#16
Poll Pitt Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 505 Senior Member	Massa moved out of the way on his own accord. So basically this huge hypocrite named Horner is saying that it's to early to break the rules... but it;s going to happen in the end. Come on hysterical people... start banging your heads to the wall... anybody? Aha...but then you can argue that you can still give preference and all possible advantages to one driver over the other without ever having to issue a race-changing order. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-31-2010, 09:18 PM	#17
Affiltavajefe Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 405 Senior Member	And then we've seen the situation in the past where you have one driver on a three stopper and one driver doing two stops. The team mate doing two stops lets the three stopper go past because he's not really racing him, and he's told to do so by the team. Is that team orders too? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-31-2010, 09:36 PM	#18
Siffidiolla Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 562 Senior Member	And then we've seen the situation in the past where you have one driver on a three stopper and one driver doing two stops. The team mate doing two stops lets the three stopper go past because he's not really racing him, and he's told to do so by the team. Is that team orders too? Nah, that's common sense! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-31-2010, 11:53 PM	#19
sitescools Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 615 Senior Member	Aha...but then you can argue that you can still give preference and all possible advantages to one driver over the other without ever having to issue a race-changing order. Yes... like it seemed to be the case at RBR in Hungary for instance... didn´t work out eventually... that felt good. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

09-08-2010, 03:49 PM	#20
gooseCile Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 563 Senior Member	it would be a bit unfair for Ferrari to get docked points and McLaren get away with the save fuel in Turkey Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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