[JackTimQSR]

Ross is on the money here.

For me a good race involves great racing. That does not automatically equal overtaking in my mind. For example I thought Turkey was excellent; tense, nip and tuck with a few brilliant passes thrown in for good measure. We all enjoy overtaking, and whilst it needs to be easier to chase we don't want to be watching Moto 125cc!

From my own personal experience the two races I would call my "best", one involved 15 passes and the other none at all.

[Clielldub]

Ross is on the money here.

For me a good race involves great racing. That does not automatically equal overtaking in my mind. For example I thought Turkey was excellent; tense, nip and tuck with a few brilliant passes thrown in for good measure. We all enjoy overtaking, and whilst it needs to be easier to chase we don't want to be watching Moto 125cc!

From my own personal experience the two races I would call my "best", one involved 15 passes and the other none at all.

As with Crofty on 5live you're on the money. His analogy is that a 0-0 scorline in footie can produce dramatic and exciting and is just the same in racing - as long as cars can follow each other within a second or so, jinking and darting to put pressure/looking for an opening.

[Savviioor]

Ross is on the money here.

For me a good race involves great racing. That does not automatically equal overtaking in my mind. For example I thought Turkey was excellent; tense, nip and tuck with a few brilliant passes thrown in for good measure. We all enjoy overtaking, and whilst it needs to be easier to chase we don't want to be watching Moto 125cc!

From my own personal experience the two races I would call my "best", one involved 15 passes and the other none at all.

Yes, very well said.

[Mappaindy]

Ross is on the money here.

For me a good race involves great racing. That does not automatically equal overtaking in my mind. For example I thought Turkey was excellent; tense, nip and tuck with a few brilliant passes thrown in for good measure. We all enjoy overtaking, and whilst it needs to be easier to chase we don't want to be watching Moto 125cc!

From my own personal experience the two races I would call my "best", one involved 15 passes and the other none at all.

Well said indeed.

[Unonounaple]

It depends whether you're talking about purely making overtaking more possible or somehow artificially creating lots of overtaking.

For example, it doesn't matter whether overtaking is easier if the quickest car qualifies on pole and then drives away from the field - that's just motor racing.

On the other hand - when a car can be catching another by nearly 2 seconds a lap and then hit the 'brick wall' of the dirty air and make no more progress - that's something that needs addressing in my opinion.

That is the nub of the problem. NASCAR "overtaking" is mainly stagecraft, but F1 really needs to work on the problem of slow cars being able to stay in front of fast ones.

[68AttendGem]

The basketball/soccer analogy is very good.

I think in addition to the design of the cars, there's also the design of the tracks to consider. One thing that Hermann Tilke does well is create tracks which encourage overtaking, but this comes at the expense of the actual spectacle. At Shanghai we often see slipstream passes down the long back straight. These are all valid overtakes, but they are just not exciting to watch, because — like points in basketball — they're easy to come by.

In its most recent F1 incarnation the Imola circuit was criticised for creating processional races. Yet the 2005 and 2006 San Marino GPs produced brilliant, tense battles to the finish between Alonso and Schumacher. Even though there was no passing and very little chance of it, there was always the possibility that one driver would make a mistake or send a wild move up the inside of the other.

That's exciting racing and we had that in Turkey as well.


In my opinion Formula 1 should focus on reducing the aerodynamic wake of the cars, but also race on more tracks like Imola. The barriers to pulling off a move should then be more in the drivers' minds rather than purely coming from the cars in front.

[Savviioor]

The basketball/soccer analogy is very good.

I think in addition to the design of the cars, there's also the design of the tracks to consider. One thing that Hermann Tilke does well is create tracks which encourage overtaking, but this comes at the expense of the actual spectacle. At Shanghai we often see slipstream passes down the long back straight. These are all valid overtakes, but they are just not exciting to watch, because — like points in basketball — they're easy to come by.

In its most recent F1 incarnation the Imola circuit was criticised for creating processional races. Yet the 2005 and 2006 San Marino GPs produced brilliant, tense battles to the finish between Alonso and Schumacher. Even though there was no passing and very little chance of it, there was always the possibility that one driver would make a mistake or send a wild move up the inside of the other.

That's exciting racing and we had that in Turkey as well.


In my opinion Formula 1 should focus on reducing the aerodynamic wake of the cars, but also race on more tracks like Imola. The barriers to pulling off a move should then be more in the drivers' minds rather than purely coming from the cars in front.

Good comment!

[OgrGlgHu]

Agreed. Overtaking just for the sake of overtaking isn't what any of us are after. If you can suck up behind the leading car and have a go at it you have excitement. It's when you can only follow within ten car lengths and can't close in that a procession becomes boring.

Also look at the comment from Brawn's standpoint. What does a team principle want? Little drama, just Schui passes for the lead----->Schui pulls out a one lap advantage and cruises home. Brawn and Merc go home happy and without breaking a sweat. The races we find the most exciting give these guys ulcers!!!

[bMc8F9ZI]

On the other hand - when a car can be catching another by nearly 2 seconds a lap and then hit the 'brick wall' of the dirty air and make no more progress - that's something that needs addressing in my opinion.

All we need is one team to figure out a way to run well in another car's "dirty air" and you'll hear the biggest outcry of cheating on this forum - until everyone else copies it, of course.

If a team could find such a solution then it would be on a par with things like 'ground effect' IMHO i.e. the kind of innovative thinking that F1 had been all about until the increasingly restrictive regulations we've seen in recent years.

[KellyLynchIV]

The basketball analogy is good, the most pointless races I ever saw were the Handford device CART parades at Michigan. However, I don't think F1's current catenaccio if is great, either. We'd need something in the middle. Hockey, anyone?

How about handball? Spectators get to see points every few minutes (unlike football association), but these aren't trivial to score as in basketball. It doesn't have unnecessary violence as American football, ice hockey or Nascar.

I want the front-runners to drive close to each other the whole race, but that's not enough: they must try to overtake each other the whole time. I don't need lead changes every minute, one overtake among the front-runners every few minutes is fine.

[aliceingoogs]

I want the front-runners to drive close to each other the whole race, but that's not enough: they must try to overtake each other the whole time. I don't need lead changes every minute, one overtake among the front-runners every few minutes is fine.

Personally, I couldn't care less if there was no overtaking if it was on the driver's own accord. That's all part of motor racing, as has already been said. But every driver should have the possibility of overtaking open to them (i.e. get rid of dirty air syndrome).

I think what you want, NaBUru, is some 1980s British touring car racing. One overtake among the front runners every few minutes is asking quite a lot in my opinion.

[JackTimQSR]

Personally, I couldn't care less if there was no overtaking if it was on the driver's own accord. That's all part of motor racing, as has already been said. But every driver should have the possibility of overtaking open to them (i.e. get rid of dirty air syndrome).

I think what you want, NaBUru, is some 1980s British touring car racing. One overtake among the front runners every few minutes is asking quite a lot in my opinion.

Agreed. Even slicks and no wings formula struggle to make a pass every other lap as NaBUru has suggested.

[AsmViktor]

Yes, but don't you think that most of the time we see a safety car, it probably needs to be out there? I mean, compared to American motorsports, I think F1 does a very good job of deploying the safety car only when absolutely necessary. In NASCAR they throw a yellow (and even have "competition" yellows) for unseen debris and hotdog wrappers on the track. The IRL throws a full course yellow and deploys a pace car, where F1 would have a local yellow, because they're apparently too broke to hire cranes to snag & bag wrecked cars off line.

Since I'd put emphasis on the "great" in Brawn's response, I'd have to agree with him. One or two great passes are memorable. Twenty or thirty meaningless, drafting passes are not.

Just my 2 cents...

I think this has more to do with the cost of insurance and the attitudes towards safety. These days you can't allow anyone to set foot on the track while cars are still racing on it (even if it is at two completely different points of the track). There's a reason why WRC never comes here!