[Moupponge]

The way I figure it, based on the order of the 2009 season and the order in which the applications were received by the FIA, the entry numbers for 2010 should be thus:

1 2 - Brawn GP
3 4 - Red Bull Racing
5 6 - McLaren
7 8 - Ferrari
14 15 - Williams
16 17 - Renault (maybe?)
18 19 - Force India
20 21 - Toro Rosso
22 23 - US F1
24 25 - Campos
26 27 - Manor
28 29 - Lotus
30 31 - Qadbak

However, regulation 21 of the FIA Sporting Code seems to be about the only thing which addresses what numbers must appear on the cars.

What I'm wondering, is if someone wanted to either take up the vacated spaces (say Lotus taking up 11 & 12) or even someone running completely out of order (like Brawn running 1 & 722) would the FIA have a problem with this? Would Ferrari want to run something as lowly as 7 & 8 when they could for instance take back 27 & 28 by force?

[frkksptn]

I think it depends if the remaining teams consent or not. Like FI did when Honda pulled out.

[lopaayd]

My best guess:

1 2 Brawn*
3 4 Red Bull
5 6 McLaren
7 8 Ferrari
9 10 Williams
11 12 Renault **
14 15 Force India
16 17 Toro Rosso
18 19 Campos
20 21 Manor
22 23 USF1
24 25 Lotus
26 27 Sauber

* Assuming Button resigns for next year, if he doesn't then the team he signs for will get 1 2, with Brawn 3 4, etc, like when Schumacher first went to Ferrari, Hill to Arrows, Alonso to McLaren.

** Assuming they stay. If they quit before the official entry list is published, the teams below will all move up, otherwise, there'll probably be a gap.

Another thing, if the Toyota team is revived under a new name, Brawn-style, probably directly swap them with Sauber. They should take 9 10 but the FIA set a precedent with putting Brawn to the back this year when they really should have had Honda's 18 19.

This is why I'm putting Sauber/Qzhfdfgffggqqqk to the back too, plus the fact they didn't sign the CA so are officially considered a "new team" regardless of what BMW did in 2009.

The gap this year (18 19) was mainly down to the lateness of the FIA shoving Brawn to the back, they originally wanted to give Force India 18 19 and Brawn 20 21, but FI had already done promotional material etc. with 20 21 on their cars and didn't want the expense and inconvenience of changing it at the last minute, so Brawn were given 22 23. So I doubt we'll see the gaps in Rollo's list, as cool as it would be to see F1 car numbers in the 30s again(!)

[fkisjjdhh]

Too many changes - the only car that ought to change are the swapping of numbers between the previous and new world champion - Button to number 1 and teammate number 2, with Hamilton to number 22 and his teammate number 23.

The rest should all remain the same other than the changes for the new season.

Consistency is important.

[ibupronec]

I still believe f1 shoud revert back to the old days, where the numbers can stay with a team/driver. Mansell no5. etc. It makes the teams much easier to use in pr. nascar are the kings at that, everyone knows who the number 3 belongs to in nascar

[baritkello]

I still believe f1 shoud revert back to the old days, where the numbers can stay with a team/driver. Mansell no5. etc. It makes the teams much easier to use in pr. nascar are the kings at that, everyone knows who the number 3 belongs to in nascar

I don't think you'll get much argument there really!

I think at the start of the season they should allocate all the existing teams numbers, starting from 3&4 and let the teams choose which numbers they would like, in order of constructors championship position. Then when those are chosen, thats the numbers they keep, forever!

If they have the world champion driving for them, then they have 1&2, after the No. 1 goes to another team they revert back to their 'historic' numbers. Note: this is different to how it used to work where the team that was taking the No.1 effectively swapped numbers with the team that was giving it up.

Numbers aren't important these days, they aren't even on the TV graphics.

[lopaayd]

I'd like to see a return to the 1974-1995 system, it was unique to F1 and it worked. Obviously it would be nice for the numbers to be a bit bigger and on the car graphics as well.

What I WOULDN'T want to see is a NASCAR/MotoGP style system where a number just becomes a sort of brand tied to a team/driver/rider like Dale Earnhardt carrying number 3 or Valentino Rossi 46 even when they are/were the reigning champion(!!!)

Consistency is important but a bit of change is good too, the old F1 system had the best of both worlds.

I actually liked the old pre-1996 CART system too where numbers 1-12 were reserved for the top 12 entrants in the previous year's championship, but after that there were easily-identifiable numbers like Foyt's 14, Walker's 15, Bettenhausen's 16, Patrick's 20 etc. Again, best of both worlds.

The old F1 system also provided a valuable link to a period of the sport's history. I remember when I first started watching properly in 1992, I had a conversation with one of my dad's friends who was a lifelong fan, I remember saying something like "How come Tyrrell have 3 and 4 and Mansell only has 5 when he nearly won the championship last year and Tyrrell are crap?" (I was 9 years old btw), and he preceded to tell me the story about the Jackie Stewart era that I previously didn't know about, with the accompanying explanation of the numbering-swap system. Followed by a brief word on Williams' early rise from new entrant to champion that resulted in Ferrari's 27 and 28.

[Moupponge]

What I WOULDN'T want to see is a NASCAR/MotoGP style system where a number just becomes a sort of brand tied to a team/driver/rider like Dale Earnhardt carrying number 3 or Valentino Rossi 46 even when they are/were the reigning champion(!!!)

Why not?

Since Formula One is very much a marketing exercise, then looking to exploit this is surely a good idea? NASCAR of all motorsports promotes tribalism and loyalty amongst race fans and this is certainly a factor.

Besides which some drivers are readily identifiable by their number:
Dale Earnhardt 3, Valentino Rossi 46, Peter Brock 05, Barry Sheene 7, Kevin Schwantz 34, Joey Dunlop 3, and when it comes down to it Mansell Red 5 and Damon Hill 0.

To take the discussion in that direction, the numbers I'd like to see on the cars would be:

1 722 - Brawn GP
0 5 - Williams
7 8 - McLaren
11 12 - Lotus
15 16 - Renault
17 76 - US F1
26 50 - Force India
27 28 - Ferrari
61 62 - Sauber (rename the team back again, it's the same people)
82 83 - Red Bull Racing
84 85 - Toro Rosso

As for Manor and Campos, then I'm not entirely sure as I don't know enough about their traditions and what not. Whatever the case there really is an uncapped opportunity for a marketing bonanza to be had.

Obviously it would be nice for the numbers to be a bit bigger and on the car graphics as well.

Yes please! If you're in the stands and trying to see a little flash go past, it can be tedious. A big number on the end plate of the rear wing at least 6 inches tall would be ideal.

[lopaayd]

Why not?

Because I don't like the thought that:

Formula One is very much a marketing exercise

What's great about Mansell's Red 5 and Hill's 0 was that they didn't choose those numbers, the numbers found them

That's why if I had a choice I'd go back to the 1974-95 system, as I said it was the best of both worlds

[Moupponge]

What's great about Mansell's Red 5 and Hill's 0 was that they didn't choose those numbers, the numbers found them

Mansell didn't get "Red 5" until the fifth race of 1985 in Canada, when it was done at the suggestion of none other than Murray Walker. (Murray touched briefly on this in his autobiography)

[Fainnamoony]

I would like the numbers to go this way:

Ferrari - 27 & 28 - those numbers are part of the Ferrari mythos
McLaren - 7 & 8 - I'm not so sure about this one. Those numbers don't automatically say "McLaren" to me but I can't think of an alternative
Williams - 5 & 6 - Mansell, Piquet, Canon, Honda, the classic Williams years
Renault - 14 & 15 - even though Renault won their first title with 5 & 6 it's the yellow and black cars of the '80s that spring to mind when I think of the Reggie
Lotus - 11 & 12 - even though this isn't really Lotus maybe their old numbers can channel a bit of Colin Chapman?
Brawn - 3/4 or 22/23 - I think they could take Tyrrell's old numbers as they were the team's first incarnation or they could take 22/23 to mark the fact that they were champions in their first year as Brawn
Force India - 32 & 33 (I think) - The numbers worn by Jordan on those beautiful 1991 7-Up green cars

The rest can pick any numbers they like and hopefully build a history around them.

The champion's team wears 1 & 2 with the his team's previous numbers remaining idle. Nobody but Ferrari should ever carry 27/28 again.

[baritkello]

The problem with 27/28 is that it's out of sequence with the rest!

[baritkello]

Which is why if I were John Todt I would bring in a rule saying at least half of the side panel of the back wing should be the car number, and it should be at least a foot tall on the front nose cone.

Then you can allocate numbers on a first come, first served basis, if Ferrari want 27 & 28, they can have it, if they happen to want 67 & 68 well that's fine too. Then the next teams gets a choice according to this years finishing positions.

Then they keep the numbers forever .. unless a team withdraws from the championship then the numbers will become available, and any team which wants to take them on could have them if they do desired.

Sadly I don't see anything like this happening!

[lomonel]

Still no number 13 though

Personally I would like numbers to mean something to the driver or team.

[PetraCromlich]

The problem with 27/28 is that it's out of sequence with the rest!

It was'nt at the time, as I remember 14 was reserved for a team running a 1 car operation for the season.

I would have it like this

1 & 2 - Brawn
3 & 4 - Red Bull
5 & 6 - Williams (It works, Mansell's Red 5 and the memories it brings with it)
7 & 8 - McLaren (these were their traditional numbers from 1978 onwards bar the odd world championship year and running Ferrari's 27 & 28 in 1990)
9 & 10 - USF1 (The current numbers of the most successful open wheeled team of recent years in the states, Target Chip Ganassi)
11 & 12 - Lotus (Their old numbers from 1980-1994, bar 1988)
15 & 16 - Renault (their traditional numbers, i think they used them when they competed at Le Mans as well)
19 & 20 - Campos (When Senna made his F1 debut, for Toleman, he raced in number 19, would be fitting for Bruno Senna to do the same)
21 & 22 - Manor (If renamed Virgin, they would get to keep Jenson's number that they sponsored last season)
23 & 24 - Toro Rosso (Using Minardi's old traditional numbers)
27 & 28 - Ferrari (When you think Ferrari, you think 27 and 28)
29 & 30 - Qadbak / Sauber (The old Sauber F1 numbers from 1993-95)
31 & 32 - Force India (Jordan's old numbers from 1991)

[nithhysfusy]

It was'nt at the time, as I remember 14 was reserved for a team running a 1 car operation for the season.

I would have it like this

1 & 2 - Brawn
3 & 4 - Red Bull
5 & 6 - Williams (It works, Mansell's Red 5 and the memories it brings with it)
7 & 8 - McLaren (these were their traditional numbers from 1978 onwards bar the odd world championship year and running Ferrari's 27 & 28 in 1990)
9 & 10 - USF1 (The current numbers of the most successful open wheeled team of recent years in the states, Target Chip Ganassi)
11 & 12 - Lotus (Their old numbers from 1980-1994, bar 1988)
15 & 16 - Renault (their traditional numbers, i think they used them when they competed at Le Mans as well)
19 & 20 - Campos (When Senna made his F1 debut, for Toleman, he raced in number 19, would be fitting for Bruno Senna to do the same)
21 & 22 - Manor (If renamed Virgin, they would get to keep Jenson's number that they sponsored last season)
23 & 24 - Toro Rosso (Using Minardi's old traditional numbers)
27 & 28 - Ferrari (When you think Ferrari, you think 27 and 28)
29 & 30 - Qadbak / Sauber (The old Sauber F1 numbers from 1993-95)
31 & 32 - Force India (Jordan's old numbers from 1991)

VERY nice! Well thought out, and I agree on all counts! I wish the responsible parties would get a clue. Seems like MOST fans really want the old numbering system back. I know I do!

For the record, I would support Brawn's permanent claim on numbers 3 and 4 once they're no longer champions.

[Moupponge]

Before that, the number 27 had no relevance to Ferrari.

The address that you go to, to take a tour of the Ferrari factory in Maranello is 27 Viale Alfredo Dino Ferrari. It's a small sort of black arched door, set into a sort of stucco finished wall.
The Gallery and museum is a little way down the street at No.43.

I think I paid about €10 to go on the tour at the time, but it's probably a little more than that now.

[Mjypksun]

What I´d like to see again is a 0-car. Avobe all other important numbers, the 0 is my favourite, and BTW we have a 0-Williams here in Valladolid

[lopaayd]

What I´d like to see again is a 0-car. Avobe all other important numbers, the 0 is my favourite, and BTW we have a 0-Williams here in Valladolid

In which case you need a reigning world champion to retire

[Moupponge]

In which case you need a reigning world champion to retire

Regulation 21 of the FIA Sporting Code never addresses that. Nor does it say how the numbers are allocated either. I imagine it would be possible to put any dang number you wanted on your cars provided it got approval, hence if I was Mercedes I'd want the Brawns to be numbered 658 and 722.