Manor designing their car without a wind tunnel - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**JoZertekAdv** · 10-07-2009, 07:55 PM

Nick Wirth states in an article that they don't use a wind tunnel at all. Can it work? Seems really strange to me. What do you guys think?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79317

**HaroldMY** · 10-07-2009, 07:58 PM

Nick Wirth states in an article that they don't use a wind tunnel at all. Can it work? Seems really strange to me. What do you guys think?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79317

Excellent, can't wait to see the results..

**NerbuitW** · 10-07-2009, 08:01 PM

Its the future - you heard it here second

**JoZertekAdv** · 10-07-2009, 08:07 PM

I can't believe the FIA & teams allow these new teams in and may possibly leave Sauber out. I'm pretty sure that this year's BMW Sauber would beat these new guys without any development over the winter at all. Just bolt in the Ferrari engine and somehow enlarge the fuel tank and these without-wind- tunnel Manors and the rest of them would be behind.

**drislerfottor** · 10-07-2009, 08:41 PM

Oh dear. I hope they don't end up embarrassing themselves too badly. I can't help but recall the CFD expert quoted in the New Scientist a while ago, who said that current CFD technology can't properly simulate a cup of coffee.

**Âåðåùàãèí** · 10-07-2009, 08:42 PM

Indeed. CFD will get you a long way there. Probably 95% of the way there. But for the other 4% you need a windtunnel. (The other 1% is of course on track testing!)

**NEronchik** · 10-07-2009, 08:59 PM

Nick Wirth designed Acura LMP1 cars mainly with CFD.

With wind tunnel restrictions next year what are the aero guys going to use? Dinky toys and electric fans?

**vladekad** · 10-07-2009, 09:00 PM

As I have said many times before. Quality before quantity. We dont need joke teams in F1 and manure seems to be heading that way.

**st01en_lox** · 10-07-2009, 09:04 PM

Wow, this is a new way of doing things. Hopefully it turns out since it looks like they will actually be a new team on the grid!

**Âåðåùàãèí** · 10-07-2009, 09:06 PM

I think it would be a good idea just to ban windtunnel testing completely! Wind tunnels are hugely expensive, server kit is going to cost less than that.

**PPActionnGuys** · 10-07-2009, 09:07 PM

recipe for a disastrous f1 season

**Bonioners** · 10-07-2009, 09:12 PM

recipe for a disastrous f1 season

Well, the Acura has been pretty effective in the ALMS.

**EzekelEnzino** · 10-07-2009, 09:32 PM

Wow, this is a new way of doing things. Hopefully it turns out since it looks like they will actually be a new team on the grid!

New way?
All the teams use CFD software to design their parts before going ahead and validate them in the wind tunnel and on the track.
How will Manor GP validate their parts? CFD is all nice and rosy but still pure theory, so not that accurate.

**Piediahef** · 10-07-2009, 09:55 PM

Probably the first official test when they're 4 seconds a lap slower....

**MidwestMadman** · 10-07-2009, 10:25 PM

This is old news that we've all known about for months. In the long run, if they lst that long, they wont do badly but they wont be race winners either.

**sueplydup** · 10-08-2009, 01:20 AM

Teams that use wind tunnels have been known to get it wrong anyway themselves.

**cmruloah** · 10-08-2009, 01:55 AM

The wind tunnel causes designers to alter this and that until the cars look ridiculous. Perhaps the new teams will design cars that will at least be pleasing to look at.

**st01en_lox** · 10-08-2009, 02:55 AM

This is old news that we've all known about for months. In the long run, if they lst that long, they wont do badly but they wont be race winners either.

That is an interesting comment as this isn't old news to me!

**gooseCile** · 10-08-2009, 02:57 AM

Excuse my ignorance, but what is CFD?

**JoZertekAdv** · 10-08-2009, 03:05 AM

This is old news that we've all known about for months. In the long run, if they lst that long, they wont do badly but they wont be race winners either.

You've known about it, people here haven't. Stop making stupid generalisations.

Teams that use wind tunnels have been known to get it wrong anyway themselves.

So you're telling me that Manure are somehow smarter than Ferrari and Mclaren because they don't use a tunnel?

10-07-2009, 07:55 PM	#1
JoZertekAdv Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 479 Senior Member	Manor designing their car without a wind tunnel Nick Wirth states in an article that they don't use a wind tunnel at all. Can it work? Seems really strange to me. What do you guys think? http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79317 Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-07-2009, 07:58 PM	#2
HaroldMY Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 512 Senior Member	Nick Wirth states in an article that they don't use a wind tunnel at all. Can it work? Seems really strange to me. What do you guys think? http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79317 Excellent, can't wait to see the results.. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2009, 08:01 PM	#3
NerbuitW Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 449 Senior Member	Its the future - you heard it here second Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-07-2009, 08:07 PM	#4
JoZertekAdv Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 479 Senior Member	I can't believe the FIA & teams allow these new teams in and may possibly leave Sauber out. I'm pretty sure that this year's BMW Sauber would beat these new guys without any development over the winter at all. Just bolt in the Ferrari engine and somehow enlarge the fuel tank and these without-wind- tunnel Manors and the rest of them would be behind. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2009, 08:41 PM	#5
drislerfottor Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 516 Senior Member	Oh dear. I hope they don't end up embarrassing themselves too badly. I can't help but recall the CFD expert quoted in the New Scientist a while ago, who said that current CFD technology can't properly simulate a cup of coffee. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2009, 08:42 PM	#6
Âåðåùàãèí Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 510 Senior Member	Indeed. CFD will get you a long way there. Probably 95% of the way there. But for the other 4% you need a windtunnel. (The other 1% is of course on track testing!) Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2009, 08:59 PM	#7
NEronchik Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 404 Senior Member	Nick Wirth designed Acura LMP1 cars mainly with CFD. With wind tunnel restrictions next year what are the aero guys going to use? Dinky toys and electric fans? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2009, 09:00 PM	#8
vladekad Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 445 Senior Member	As I have said many times before. Quality before quantity. We dont need joke teams in F1 and manure seems to be heading that way. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2009, 09:04 PM	#9
st01en_lox Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 414 Senior Member	Wow, this is a new way of doing things. Hopefully it turns out since it looks like they will actually be a new team on the grid! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2009, 09:06 PM	#10
Âåðåùàãèí Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 510 Senior Member	I think it would be a good idea just to ban windtunnel testing completely! Wind tunnels are hugely expensive, server kit is going to cost less than that. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2009, 09:07 PM	#11
PPActionnGuys Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 665 Senior Member	recipe for a disastrous f1 season Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-07-2009, 09:12 PM	#12
Bonioners Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 418 Senior Member	recipe for a disastrous f1 season Well, the Acura has been pretty effective in the ALMS. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-07-2009, 09:32 PM	#13
EzekelEnzino Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 742 Senior Member	Wow, this is a new way of doing things. Hopefully it turns out since it looks like they will actually be a new team on the grid! New way? All the teams use CFD software to design their parts before going ahead and validate them in the wind tunnel and on the track. How will Manor GP validate their parts? CFD is all nice and rosy but still pure theory, so not that accurate. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2009, 09:55 PM	#14
Piediahef Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 431 Senior Member	Probably the first official test when they're 4 seconds a lap slower.... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-07-2009, 10:25 PM	#15
MidwestMadman Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 493 Senior Member	This is old news that we've all known about for months. In the long run, if they lst that long, they wont do badly but they wont be race winners either. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-08-2009, 01:20 AM	#16
sueplydup Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 538 Senior Member	Teams that use wind tunnels have been known to get it wrong anyway themselves. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-08-2009, 01:55 AM	#17
cmruloah Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 490 Senior Member	The wind tunnel causes designers to alter this and that until the cars look ridiculous. Perhaps the new teams will design cars that will at least be pleasing to look at. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-08-2009, 02:55 AM	#18
st01en_lox Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 414 Senior Member	This is old news that we've all known about for months. In the long run, if they lst that long, they wont do badly but they wont be race winners either. That is an interesting comment as this isn't old news to me! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-08-2009, 02:57 AM	#19
gooseCile Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 563 Senior Member	Excuse my ignorance, but what is CFD? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-08-2009, 03:05 AM	#20
JoZertekAdv Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 479 Senior Member	This is old news that we've all known about for months. In the long run, if they lst that long, they wont do badly but they wont be race winners either. You've known about it, people here haven't. Stop making stupid generalisations. Teams that use wind tunnels have been known to get it wrong anyway themselves. So you're telling me that Manure are somehow smarter than Ferrari and Mclaren because they don't use a tunnel? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote