Massa: Alonso knew about race fixing - Page 2 - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**Itrtuawh** · 10-16-2009, 09:46 AM

I have a ton of respect for Alonso as a driver--he's the most complete there is after Schumacher. But . . .

After his alleged whining about Fisi's pace back in the day I thought, "Eh, so what, he's clearly faster than GF most of the time. It's probably just the Fisichella apologists."

After his short, problematic tenure with McLaren--his issues with Hamilton and his part in Spygate, I thought, "Well, maybe it was not the best situation to be in. McLaren obviously prefer Hamilton."

But after Crash-gate, I'm almost done being a fan of his. I really think Piquet, Sr. gave a cogent explanation of FA's Singapore strategy. It just didn't make sense and I tend to believe an intelligent driver like Fernando HAD to know something.

I thought that when the rumours came out.

Alonso is smart, and it's almost impossible that there was a strategy tailored around him winning the race and he knew nothing about it.

We'll just have to see what happens at Ferrari, but it won't be good judging by this so far lol.

**ONLINEPHARMACYCHEAPILLS** · 10-16-2009, 10:06 AM

I still have problems with calling it "race fixing". To me, race fixing is something that guarantees a definite result. An example would be a driver being told to let his teammate or another driver by in the last 1 or 2 laps of the race. Nelson hitting the wall may have given Alonso an immediate advantage but there was still a whole lot of race still to go and all sorts of things might have happened to negate that advantage. Other than that, it would seem the team finally found something Nelson could do right, that would help the team.

**Bvghbopz** · 10-16-2009, 04:05 PM

I was very angry about this back then, but this is not relevant to Alonso and now. "He did this so what about this" just pads out an arguement for the sake of it IMO...

Alonso is caught up in this latest scandal whether he likes it or not, and its another infamous episode cemented onto his reputation. I still don't understand why Felipe is talking about it with the press however. His theory that he lost the WDC because of this sole incident, holds no water with many. I have a lot of respect for the way Felipe accepted defeat on the podium in Brazil last year, and by saying things to devalue Lewis Hamilton's victory now just makes himself look like a sore loser. Felipe needs to distance himself now from any further comments on the matter before he damages himself anymore...Lets move on..

It'll be an exciting watching their relationship develop no doubt..

**hotsaucemidl** · 10-16-2009, 04:19 PM

It remains to be announced whether Massa also knew about the race fixing and preferred to keep his big mouth shut. Now there's a thought!!

**diplmixxxx** · 10-16-2009, 04:29 PM

Didn't care much for the guy but I have huge respect for the way he improved himself during recent years... however he's a sore loser and embarrasses himself a lot with all these useless statements... I agree with whoever said he feels now that last year was probably his last big chance to win the wdc.

**ivandiadser** · 10-16-2009, 08:08 PM

Felipe is starting to annoy me. He lost the championship because of many things, but the crashgate is not among them. Renault had nothing to do with the idiotic mechanic. Nor with his mistake in Malaysia. Nor with the blown engine in Hungary, I even may say that he stayed in the WDC cause Max decided to guarantee a "dramatic" finish to the season after Spa.
He is trying to annoy Alonso, but I think that the Spanish driver will manage to defeat him. I hope so!

**primaveraloler** · 10-16-2009, 08:30 PM

I do agree with Massa about Alonso knowing, but can't quite see why he is mentioning this in an interview about his future team mate. He is obviously pinning this single episode on the reason he lost the WDC last year, which is a little misguided. If it makes him feel better then great, but its less than constructive IMO..

Who cares if it's constructive or not. He's not out there to help a thief, is he?
And why is it misguided?

**primaveraloler** · 10-16-2009, 08:32 PM

Felipe is starting to annoy me. He lost the championship because of many things, but the crashgate is not among them.

Talk about living in another world.
You're not one of those who think that Alonso is perfect are you?!

**diplmixxxx** · 10-16-2009, 08:58 PM

Who cares if it's constructive or not. He's not out there to help a thief, is he?
And why is it misguided?

He did it once, he can do it again.

**Flatlytaize** · 10-16-2009, 08:59 PM

And speculating whether Alonso knew or did not is mild by comparison.

Industrial espionage, blackmailing his own employer, Alonso should be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize

**ivandiadser** · 10-16-2009, 09:08 PM

Talk about living in another world.
You're not one of those who think that Alonso is perfect are you?!

No, relax

I think that he is the best driver in the current F1, but he is not perfect.

**arrendabomnem** · 10-16-2009, 09:09 PM

LOL.......... the forum is over flowing with sour grapes lately... Massa and any other deluded persons can believe whatever they wish... it will not change a thing... Alonso will forever be not guilty of complicity in the crashgate scandal no matter how many rants are made on forums...

Rant away... Lewis is still 2009 WDC...

Rant away... Alonso is innocent in crashgate...

Rant away... Schumacher is still 7 time WDC...

These thing will never change, Massa failure was not believing what he believes but rather committing slander... that crossed the line and he was rightly reprimanded by his team and vilified by his sport.. end of.

**Bvghbopz** · 10-17-2009, 12:58 AM

Who cares if it's constructive or not. He's not out there to help a thief, is he?
And why is it misguided?

He's not out there to help a thief no, but he is required to be a professional. Judging by the damage limitation statements issued by himself and Ferrari, I fear I am not alone in questioning his original judgement.

He is misguided in the sense that the crashgate scandal has virtually nothing to do with him. He believes it was this sole incident that robbed him of the WDC, but thats a very convenient let off considering the other factors which he is choosing to forget. Making inflammatory comments about his future team mate is dangerous ground which I am sure Ferrari are eager to avoid.

**Rupeviv** · 10-17-2009, 01:09 AM

LOL.......... the forum is over flowing with sour grapes lately... Massa and any other deluded persons can believe whatever they wish... it will not change a thing... Alonso will forever be not guilty of complicity in the crashgate scandal no matter how many rants are made on forums...

Rant away... Lewis is still 2009 WDC...

Rant away... Alonso is innocent in crashgate...

Rant away... Schumacher is still 7 time WDC...

These thing will never change, Massa failure was not believing what he believes but rather committing slander... that crossed the line and he was rightly reprimanded by his team and vilified by his sport.. end of.

nice to know

**WeestDype** · 10-17-2009, 03:03 AM

He's not out there to help a thief no, but he is required to be a professional. Judging by the damage limitation statements issued by himself and Ferrari, I fear I am not alone in questioning his original judgement.

Had it been almost anyone other than Massa making these comments, you can bet your life that ioan's opinion would be completely different to the one expressed here, so I would take his view with a pinch of salt.

**pumpineemob** · 10-17-2009, 03:04 AM

i wasn't sure he didn't know, but i can belive it - after having the qually oace and then the problem that dropped him down the grid the only way to exploit the pace of the car would be to go aggresive and hope for a safety car, otherwise they'd be stuck in mid field anyway so nothing really to lose - presumabley if someone else had crashed the strategy would have played out the same, and when no-one did they had to pull the pin on piquet and the rest is history.

its quite beliveable that Alonso would have acepted a super aggresive strategy designed to capitalise on a safety car period ona brand new street circuit and perhaps he would have not questioned it any further, although afterwards i expect he thought it was all rather convenient.

BTW this is just my take on one possiblility, of course he may have known all along and just stayed quiet - either seems equally beliveable IMO

**esenesesinas** · 10-17-2009, 05:49 AM

Massa's comment is a recipe for disaster for Ferrari. They are supposed to work together with the team bringing a totally new car and this is how it starts. Trouble ahead. Well, the wise men at Maranello asked for this, they wanted two Latins like Alonso said and so they will face the consequences. Kimi hasn't said anything about Alonso and race fixing by the way.

**hechicxxrr** · 10-17-2009, 07:33 AM

I don't particularly like Massa, but it's hard to believe that Alonso didn't know squat about the whole issue. Very, very hard to believe that, especially since during the spygate scandal, he was in the know about everything and discussed it via email with PDLR about the type of gas Ferrari use in their tyres and what not.

It's impossible to believe that a guy like Alonso would just go out there and race without even a word from Briatore or Symonds about the whole issue, the guys with whom he won two championships. Oh no, highly unlikely.

Like DexDexter said, good luck to Ferrari for handling two fiery latins next year.

**Ternneowns** · 10-17-2009, 07:50 AM

LOL.......... the forum is over flowing with sour grapes lately... Massa and any other deluded persons can believe whatever they wish... it will not change a thing... Alonso will forever be not guilty of complicity in the crashgate scandal no matter how many rants are made on forums...

Rant away... Lewis is still 2009 WDC...

Rant away... Alonso is innocent in crashgate...

Rant away... Schumacher is still 7 time WDC...

These thing will never change, Massa failure was not believing what he believes but rather committing slander... that crossed the line and he was rightly reprimanded by his team and vilified by his sport.. end of.

i believe that alonso should have been striped of last years wins
i believe that alonso will cheat and blackmail to get his way
i believe that alonso will not do any better then Luca Badoer or Giancarlo Fisichella for the first 4 or so races

**infarrelisam** · 10-17-2009, 10:34 AM

i believe that alonso will not do any better then Luca Badoer or Giancarlo Fisichella for the first 4 or so races

Someone forgot their medication.

10-16-2009, 09:46 AM	#21
Itrtuawh Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 503 Senior Member	I have a ton of respect for Alonso as a driver--he's the most complete there is after Schumacher. But . . . After his alleged whining about Fisi's pace back in the day I thought, "Eh, so what, he's clearly faster than GF most of the time. It's probably just the Fisichella apologists." After his short, problematic tenure with McLaren--his issues with Hamilton and his part in Spygate, I thought, "Well, maybe it was not the best situation to be in. McLaren obviously prefer Hamilton." But after Crash-gate, I'm almost done being a fan of his. I really think Piquet, Sr. gave a cogent explanation of FA's Singapore strategy. It just didn't make sense and I tend to believe an intelligent driver like Fernando HAD to know something. I thought that when the rumours came out. Alonso is smart, and it's almost impossible that there was a strategy tailored around him winning the race and he knew nothing about it. We'll just have to see what happens at Ferrari, but it won't be good judging by this so far lol. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-16-2009, 10:06 AM	#22
ONLINEPHARMACYCHEAPILLS Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 478 Senior Member	I still have problems with calling it "race fixing". To me, race fixing is something that guarantees a definite result. An example would be a driver being told to let his teammate or another driver by in the last 1 or 2 laps of the race. Nelson hitting the wall may have given Alonso an immediate advantage but there was still a whole lot of race still to go and all sorts of things might have happened to negate that advantage. Other than that, it would seem the team finally found something Nelson could do right, that would help the team. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-16-2009, 04:05 PM	#23
Bvghbopz Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 528 Senior Member	I was very angry about this back then, but this is not relevant to Alonso and now. "He did this so what about this" just pads out an arguement for the sake of it IMO... Alonso is caught up in this latest scandal whether he likes it or not, and its another infamous episode cemented onto his reputation. I still don't understand why Felipe is talking about it with the press however. His theory that he lost the WDC because of this sole incident, holds no water with many. I have a lot of respect for the way Felipe accepted defeat on the podium in Brazil last year, and by saying things to devalue Lewis Hamilton's victory now just makes himself look like a sore loser. Felipe needs to distance himself now from any further comments on the matter before he damages himself anymore...Lets move on.. It'll be an exciting watching their relationship develop no doubt.. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-16-2009, 04:19 PM	#24
hotsaucemidl Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 508 Senior Member	It remains to be announced whether Massa also knew about the race fixing and preferred to keep his big mouth shut. Now there's a thought!! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-16-2009, 04:29 PM	#25
diplmixxxx Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 446 Senior Member	Didn't care much for the guy but I have huge respect for the way he improved himself during recent years... however he's a sore loser and embarrasses himself a lot with all these useless statements... I agree with whoever said he feels now that last year was probably his last big chance to win the wdc. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-16-2009, 08:08 PM	#26
ivandiadser Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 480 Senior Member	Felipe is starting to annoy me. He lost the championship because of many things, but the crashgate is not among them. Renault had nothing to do with the idiotic mechanic. Nor with his mistake in Malaysia. Nor with the blown engine in Hungary, I even may say that he stayed in the WDC cause Max decided to guarantee a "dramatic" finish to the season after Spa. He is trying to annoy Alonso, but I think that the Spanish driver will manage to defeat him. I hope so! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-16-2009, 08:30 PM	#27
primaveraloler Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 568 Senior Member	I do agree with Massa about Alonso knowing, but can't quite see why he is mentioning this in an interview about his future team mate. He is obviously pinning this single episode on the reason he lost the WDC last year, which is a little misguided. If it makes him feel better then great, but its less than constructive IMO.. Who cares if it's constructive or not. He's not out there to help a thief, is he? And why is it misguided? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-16-2009, 08:32 PM	#28
primaveraloler Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 568 Senior Member	Felipe is starting to annoy me. He lost the championship because of many things, but the crashgate is not among them. Talk about living in another world. You're not one of those who think that Alonso is perfect are you?! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-16-2009, 08:58 PM	#29
diplmixxxx Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 446 Senior Member	Who cares if it's constructive or not. He's not out there to help a thief, is he? And why is it misguided? He did it once, he can do it again. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-16-2009, 08:59 PM	#30
Flatlytaize Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 471 Senior Member	And speculating whether Alonso knew or did not is mild by comparison. Industrial espionage, blackmailing his own employer, Alonso should be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-16-2009, 09:08 PM	#31
ivandiadser Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 480 Senior Member	Talk about living in another world. You're not one of those who think that Alonso is perfect are you?! No, relax I think that he is the best driver in the current F1, but he is not perfect. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-16-2009, 09:09 PM	#32
arrendabomnem Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 395 Senior Member	LOL.......... the forum is over flowing with sour grapes lately... Massa and any other deluded persons can believe whatever they wish... it will not change a thing... Alonso will forever be not guilty of complicity in the crashgate scandal no matter how many rants are made on forums... Rant away... Lewis is still 2009 WDC... Rant away... Alonso is innocent in crashgate... Rant away... Schumacher is still 7 time WDC... These thing will never change, Massa failure was not believing what he believes but rather committing slander... that crossed the line and he was rightly reprimanded by his team and vilified by his sport.. end of. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-17-2009, 12:58 AM	#33
Bvghbopz Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 528 Senior Member	Who cares if it's constructive or not. He's not out there to help a thief, is he? And why is it misguided? He's not out there to help a thief no, but he is required to be a professional. Judging by the damage limitation statements issued by himself and Ferrari, I fear I am not alone in questioning his original judgement. He is misguided in the sense that the crashgate scandal has virtually nothing to do with him. He believes it was this sole incident that robbed him of the WDC, but thats a very convenient let off considering the other factors which he is choosing to forget. Making inflammatory comments about his future team mate is dangerous ground which I am sure Ferrari are eager to avoid. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-17-2009, 01:09 AM	#34
Rupeviv Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 448 Senior Member	LOL.......... the forum is over flowing with sour grapes lately... Massa and any other deluded persons can believe whatever they wish... it will not change a thing... Alonso will forever be not guilty of complicity in the crashgate scandal no matter how many rants are made on forums... Rant away... Lewis is still 2009 WDC... Rant away... Alonso is innocent in crashgate... Rant away... Schumacher is still 7 time WDC... These thing will never change, Massa failure was not believing what he believes but rather committing slander... that crossed the line and he was rightly reprimanded by his team and vilified by his sport.. end of. nice to know Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-17-2009, 03:03 AM	#35
WeestDype Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 453 Senior Member	He's not out there to help a thief no, but he is required to be a professional. Judging by the damage limitation statements issued by himself and Ferrari, I fear I am not alone in questioning his original judgement. Had it been almost anyone other than Massa making these comments, you can bet your life that ioan's opinion would be completely different to the one expressed here, so I would take his view with a pinch of salt. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-17-2009, 03:04 AM	#36
pumpineemob Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 474 Senior Member	i wasn't sure he didn't know, but i can belive it - after having the qually oace and then the problem that dropped him down the grid the only way to exploit the pace of the car would be to go aggresive and hope for a safety car, otherwise they'd be stuck in mid field anyway so nothing really to lose - presumabley if someone else had crashed the strategy would have played out the same, and when no-one did they had to pull the pin on piquet and the rest is history. its quite beliveable that Alonso would have acepted a super aggresive strategy designed to capitalise on a safety car period ona brand new street circuit and perhaps he would have not questioned it any further, although afterwards i expect he thought it was all rather convenient. BTW this is just my take on one possiblility, of course he may have known all along and just stayed quiet - either seems equally beliveable IMO Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-17-2009, 05:49 AM	#37
esenesesinas Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 512 Senior Member	Massa's comment is a recipe for disaster for Ferrari. They are supposed to work together with the team bringing a totally new car and this is how it starts. Trouble ahead. Well, the wise men at Maranello asked for this, they wanted two Latins like Alonso said and so they will face the consequences. Kimi hasn't said anything about Alonso and race fixing by the way. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-17-2009, 07:33 AM	#38
hechicxxrr Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 557 Senior Member	I don't particularly like Massa, but it's hard to believe that Alonso didn't know squat about the whole issue. Very, very hard to believe that, especially since during the spygate scandal, he was in the know about everything and discussed it via email with PDLR about the type of gas Ferrari use in their tyres and what not. It's impossible to believe that a guy like Alonso would just go out there and race without even a word from Briatore or Symonds about the whole issue, the guys with whom he won two championships. Oh no, highly unlikely. Like DexDexter said, good luck to Ferrari for handling two fiery latins next year. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-17-2009, 07:50 AM	#39
Ternneowns Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 541 Senior Member	LOL.......... the forum is over flowing with sour grapes lately... Massa and any other deluded persons can believe whatever they wish... it will not change a thing... Alonso will forever be not guilty of complicity in the crashgate scandal no matter how many rants are made on forums... Rant away... Lewis is still 2009 WDC... Rant away... Alonso is innocent in crashgate... Rant away... Schumacher is still 7 time WDC... These thing will never change, Massa failure was not believing what he believes but rather committing slander... that crossed the line and he was rightly reprimanded by his team and vilified by his sport.. end of. i believe that alonso should have been striped of last years wins i believe that alonso will cheat and blackmail to get his way i believe that alonso will not do any better then Luca Badoer or Giancarlo Fisichella for the first 4 or so races Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-17-2009, 10:34 AM	#40
infarrelisam Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 428 Senior Member	i believe that alonso will not do any better then Luca Badoer or Giancarlo Fisichella for the first 4 or so races Someone forgot their medication. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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