Brawn GP set to win on Honda's turf - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**Dogxzysl** · 09-30-2009, 11:01 PM

How ironic will it be for Brawn GP to win the World Constructors Championship on Honda's home circuit? How much will Honda's management be kicking themselves for pulling out when the car that they designed is a winner.

But would the car be as successful as it is if Honda were still in charge? The strongest engine this year appears to be the Mercedes unit. Would Button & Barrichello still be winning if the car had a Honda engine?

**elton** · 09-30-2009, 11:22 PM

How ironic will it be for Brawn GP to win the World Constructors Championship on Honda's home circuit? How much will Honda's management be kicking themselves for pulling out when the car that they designed is a winner.

Lots

But would the car be as successful as it is if Honda were still in charge? The strongest engine this year appears to be the Mercedes unit. Would Button & Barrichello still be winning if the car had a Honda engine? No.

**VZF74G0M** · 09-30-2009, 11:31 PM

No.

Which, in a roundabout kind of way, suggests Honda's withdrawal before the start of the season as 'probably' a rather good move.

Given that it was mostly Honda's money that bankrolled the Brawn 2009 effort, the Honda guys can hold their heads high in my book.

**Rupeviv** · 10-01-2009, 12:37 AM

this isnt just brawn who might win the championship this weekend, its effectively honda as well, as its their car essentially, or was at least. howver, honda wont get much much priase, but well done everyone at brawn for a fantastic season so far, and hopefully things can go right for them now..........

**ephennaCypota** · 10-01-2009, 12:52 AM

I think they have been pretty clear. Honda's decision to leave F1 was not an easy one, it was simply a matter of paying the bills in an uncertain future. I'm sure many here have had to part with a prized possession at one time or another to make ends meet or to finance something that provided a potential longer long term benefit. I wouldn't be shocked at all to see a congratualtions from the Honda team when Brawn clinches the drivers championship.

**DP5Ups8o** · 10-01-2009, 01:54 AM

The Honda engine was probably a dog.

Without the Mercedes engine, I don't think this team would be winning like this. So Honda really shouldn't feel that if they had stayed in they would have a championship.

**picinaRefadia** · 10-01-2009, 02:19 AM

I don't believe the Honda would have won as often (certainly not monza) but the car had such a performance advantage in the early season that those first 3 or 4 wins would have happened with any engine in the trunk IMO.

**VZF74G0M** · 10-01-2009, 03:18 AM

I wouldn't be shocked at all to see a congratualtions from the Honda team when Brawn clinches the drivers championship.

I hope the Brawn guys, after thanking FOTA and Merc/McLaren, doff their caps to Honda as well.

**elton** · 10-01-2009, 05:26 PM

I hope the Brawn guys, after thanking FOTA and Merc/McLaren, doff their caps to Honda as well.

I think they will.

The Brawn team has put together a terrific package which has firmly established them in the F1 pecking order but it has to be acknowledged that Honda have been supportive with the transition.

It's also worth noting the difference the Merc engine offers over the Honda powerplant. The Honda unit does seem to have been a difficult beast to say the least.

Honda did the right thing not just by stepping down but by stepping down in a complimentary and constructive way for the Brawn team and I am sure this is appreciated.

**Cyclicymn** · 10-01-2009, 05:32 PM

If Brawn and Jenson win the titles in this race, I don't know about Honda, but my first birthday present will come in advance of one week.

**illetrygrargo** · 10-01-2009, 07:01 PM

It would be extremely funny to see Brawn win at Honda's track :-)
Some hara-kiri/seppuku will be in order

ps: I really wanted to see this team win as Honda as I have great respect for the Honda badge and never though of them as quitters.
Same with BMW, just wait till Sauber/whoever wins a race next year!

**dittygari** · 10-01-2009, 07:11 PM

Sauber / Qadback winning will not be the same as Brawn winning..cause the $$$ doesn't come from BMW

**lalpphilalk** · 10-01-2009, 07:32 PM

I feel a bit sorry for Honda. They spent millions designing that car and now they won't be able to claim the glory when it wins the title. As for the suggestion that Brawn wouldn't have won without the Mercedes unit, I'm not sure I agree. Ross Brawn himself as stated that he feels they would've been equally successful with the Honda. You have to bear in mind that the car was designed to have the Honda unit fitted. It required some compromise and a bit of work to stick the Merc in.

**hieklyintinee** · 10-01-2009, 07:35 PM

The Honda engine was probably a dog.

Without the Mercedes engine, I don't think this team would be winning like this. So Honda really shouldn't feel that if they had stayed in they would have a championship.

But strangely the McLaren with it's Merc engine has been abject, therefore surely more of the success can be attributed to the aero and chassis work?

**elton** · 10-01-2009, 08:57 PM

As for the suggestion that Brawn wouldn't have won without the Mercedes unit, I'm not sure I agree. Ross Brawn himself as stated that he feels they would've been equally successful with the Honda. You have to bear in mind that the car was designed to have the Honda unit fitted. It required some compromise and a bit of work to stick the Merc in.

Ross has to be a bit restrained but the tell for me was Jenson gushing about what a difference the engine was at the beginning of the season. The drivers think the Merc power-plant is a big improvement.

@ Jan:

Totally agree. It's a stunning car but the engine allows them to exploite the handleing.

**Cyclicymn** · 10-01-2009, 08:58 PM

I think that Mercedes-Benz has been a crucial part of the success of Brawn GP. McLaren had problems, but now they are strong as well. Even Force India is strong...

**Irravepem** · 10-02-2009, 08:20 AM

Without the Mercedes Benz High Performance Engine unit there would have been no Brawn team participating.

It was that division of Mercedes Benz that assessed the team run by Ross and, decided to provide engines based on trust that enabled the team.

Together with the team refitting the car for a differently configured engine the Brawn, great grand daughter of the Tyrrell team, was born.

Honda deserves nothing other than the "universal sign". They pulled out at the last minute - not a staged withdrawal - pulling the employment rug out of many people.

It was Ross and Nick Fry that brilliantly put a plan together and managed to save the team - which now flourishes.

Honda provided funds for their own reasons but so what.

This championship will belong to Brawn GP and MBHPE unit.

**ceagsoosy** · 10-02-2009, 08:58 AM

Honda provided funds for their own reasons but so what.

'So what'? Are you kidding?

Honda bankrolled not only BrawnGP's entire car (minus the engine) but also wrote them a blank cheque for their entire season.

Your attempts to discredit Honda's large role in making the team what it is are pretty futile.

**Nabeqiv** · 10-04-2009, 02:55 AM

I hope the Brawn guys, after thanking FOTA and Merc/McLaren, doff their caps to Honda as well.

Brawn has been pretty open about that since day 1. They were thanking Honda for providing the chance to continue the team and providing funding before Melbourne.

ClarkFan

**ChebuRAtoR** · 10-04-2009, 04:02 AM

How ironic will it be for Brawn GP to win the World Constructors Championship on Honda's home circuit? How much will Honda's management be kicking themselves for pulling out when the car that they designed is a winner.

Probably less likely now seeing that both Brawns have been relegated 5 grid positions.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8288190.stm

09-30-2009, 11:01 PM	#1
Dogxzysl Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 333 Senior Member	Brawn GP set to win on Honda's turf How ironic will it be for Brawn GP to win the World Constructors Championship on Honda's home circuit? How much will Honda's management be kicking themselves for pulling out when the car that they designed is a winner. But would the car be as successful as it is if Honda were still in charge? The strongest engine this year appears to be the Mercedes unit. Would Button & Barrichello still be winning if the car had a Honda engine? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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09-30-2009, 11:22 PM	#2
elton Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 650 Senior Member	How ironic will it be for Brawn GP to win the World Constructors Championship on Honda's home circuit? How much will Honda's management be kicking themselves for pulling out when the car that they designed is a winner. Lots But would the car be as successful as it is if Honda were still in charge? The strongest engine this year appears to be the Mercedes unit. Would Button & Barrichello still be winning if the car had a Honda engine? No. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

09-30-2009, 11:31 PM	#3
VZF74G0M Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 518 Senior Member	No. Which, in a roundabout kind of way, suggests Honda's withdrawal before the start of the season as 'probably' a rather good move. Given that it was mostly Honda's money that bankrolled the Brawn 2009 effort, the Honda guys can hold their heads high in my book. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-01-2009, 12:37 AM	#4
Rupeviv Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 448 Senior Member	this isnt just brawn who might win the championship this weekend, its effectively honda as well, as its their car essentially, or was at least. howver, honda wont get much much priase, but well done everyone at brawn for a fantastic season so far, and hopefully things can go right for them now.......... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-01-2009, 12:52 AM	#5
ephennaCypota Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 534 Senior Member	I think they have been pretty clear. Honda's decision to leave F1 was not an easy one, it was simply a matter of paying the bills in an uncertain future. I'm sure many here have had to part with a prized possession at one time or another to make ends meet or to finance something that provided a potential longer long term benefit. I wouldn't be shocked at all to see a congratualtions from the Honda team when Brawn clinches the drivers championship. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-01-2009, 01:54 AM	#6
DP5Ups8o Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 558 Senior Member	The Honda engine was probably a dog. Without the Mercedes engine, I don't think this team would be winning like this. So Honda really shouldn't feel that if they had stayed in they would have a championship. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-01-2009, 02:19 AM	#7
picinaRefadia Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 475 Senior Member	I don't believe the Honda would have won as often (certainly not monza) but the car had such a performance advantage in the early season that those first 3 or 4 wins would have happened with any engine in the trunk IMO. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-01-2009, 03:18 AM	#8
VZF74G0M Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 518 Senior Member	I wouldn't be shocked at all to see a congratualtions from the Honda team when Brawn clinches the drivers championship. I hope the Brawn guys, after thanking FOTA and Merc/McLaren, doff their caps to Honda as well. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-01-2009, 05:26 PM	#9
elton Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 650 Senior Member	I hope the Brawn guys, after thanking FOTA and Merc/McLaren, doff their caps to Honda as well. I think they will. The Brawn team has put together a terrific package which has firmly established them in the F1 pecking order but it has to be acknowledged that Honda have been supportive with the transition. It's also worth noting the difference the Merc engine offers over the Honda powerplant. The Honda unit does seem to have been a difficult beast to say the least. Honda did the right thing not just by stepping down but by stepping down in a complimentary and constructive way for the Brawn team and I am sure this is appreciated. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-01-2009, 05:32 PM	#10
Cyclicymn Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 501 Senior Member	If Brawn and Jenson win the titles in this race, I don't know about Honda, but my first birthday present will come in advance of one week. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-01-2009, 07:01 PM	#11
illetrygrargo Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 429 Senior Member	It would be extremely funny to see Brawn win at Honda's track :-) Some hara-kiri/seppuku will be in order ps: I really wanted to see this team win as Honda as I have great respect for the Honda badge and never though of them as quitters. Same with BMW, just wait till Sauber/whoever wins a race next year! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-01-2009, 07:11 PM	#12
dittygari Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 549 Senior Member	Sauber / Qadback winning will not be the same as Brawn winning..cause the $$$ doesn't come from BMW Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-01-2009, 07:32 PM	#13
lalpphilalk Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 440 Senior Member	I feel a bit sorry for Honda. They spent millions designing that car and now they won't be able to claim the glory when it wins the title. As for the suggestion that Brawn wouldn't have won without the Mercedes unit, I'm not sure I agree. Ross Brawn himself as stated that he feels they would've been equally successful with the Honda. You have to bear in mind that the car was designed to have the Honda unit fitted. It required some compromise and a bit of work to stick the Merc in. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-01-2009, 07:35 PM	#14
hieklyintinee Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 467 Senior Member	The Honda engine was probably a dog. Without the Mercedes engine, I don't think this team would be winning like this. So Honda really shouldn't feel that if they had stayed in they would have a championship. But strangely the McLaren with it's Merc engine has been abject, therefore surely more of the success can be attributed to the aero and chassis work? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-01-2009, 08:57 PM	#15
elton Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 650 Senior Member	As for the suggestion that Brawn wouldn't have won without the Mercedes unit, I'm not sure I agree. Ross Brawn himself as stated that he feels they would've been equally successful with the Honda. You have to bear in mind that the car was designed to have the Honda unit fitted. It required some compromise and a bit of work to stick the Merc in. Ross has to be a bit restrained but the tell for me was Jenson gushing about what a difference the engine was at the beginning of the season. The drivers think the Merc power-plant is a big improvement. @ Jan: Totally agree. It's a stunning car but the engine allows them to exploite the handleing. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

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10-01-2009, 08:58 PM	#16
Cyclicymn Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 501 Senior Member	I think that Mercedes-Benz has been a crucial part of the success of Brawn GP. McLaren had problems, but now they are strong as well. Even Force India is strong... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-02-2009, 08:20 AM	#17
Irravepem Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 443 Senior Member	Without the Mercedes Benz High Performance Engine unit there would have been no Brawn team participating. It was that division of Mercedes Benz that assessed the team run by Ross and, decided to provide engines based on trust that enabled the team. Together with the team refitting the car for a differently configured engine the Brawn, great grand daughter of the Tyrrell team, was born. Honda deserves nothing other than the "universal sign". They pulled out at the last minute - not a staged withdrawal - pulling the employment rug out of many people. It was Ross and Nick Fry that brilliantly put a plan together and managed to save the team - which now flourishes. Honda provided funds for their own reasons but so what. This championship will belong to Brawn GP and MBHPE unit. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-02-2009, 08:58 AM	#18
ceagsoosy Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 409 Senior Member	Honda provided funds for their own reasons but so what. 'So what'? Are you kidding? Honda bankrolled not only BrawnGP's entire car (minus the engine) but also wrote them a blank cheque for their entire season. Your attempts to discredit Honda's large role in making the team what it is are pretty futile. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-04-2009, 02:55 AM	#19
Nabeqiv Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 481 Senior Member	I hope the Brawn guys, after thanking FOTA and Merc/McLaren, doff their caps to Honda as well. Brawn has been pretty open about that since day 1. They were thanking Honda for providing the chance to continue the team and providing funding before Melbourne. ClarkFan Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-04-2009, 04:02 AM	#20
ChebuRAtoR Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 536 Senior Member	How ironic will it be for Brawn GP to win the World Constructors Championship on Honda's home circuit? How much will Honda's management be kicking themselves for pulling out when the car that they designed is a winner. Probably less likely now seeing that both Brawns have been relegated 5 grid positions. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8288190.stm Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote