[Gosxjqum]

What kind of stupid situation are we in where 3 teams have stated which parts they intend to run in Australia and yet there's still debate as to their legality? We could have the embarassing sight of cars which have done well in the race being disqualified afterwards on a technicality, confusing and alienating viewers and fans.

[golfmenorca]

What kind of stupid situation are we in where 3 teams have stated which parts they intend to run in Australia and yet there's still debate as to their legality?

Particularly as there was known to be an issue back in January. Almost two months later the FIA now says there isn't time to clarify the rules and, as a result, this "will probably come to some sort of a head in Australia"

[Zzvukttz]

The thing that puzzles me is that if it's a "grey area", surely it has to be legal? If it isn't specifically banned then it's fair game I would have thought.

It was the same with the flex of the Ferrari floor last season, it passed all the scrutineering tests, still the FIA changed the tests for the next GP.

[gkruCRi1]

Autosport tried to explain this a while back. I can't find the article, but from what I remember there is a maximin height for the diffuser as measured from the ground, but the top of the diffuser also has to connect to the floorpan/undertray at the rear of the car. What Williams and the rest have done is basically raise the floor in that area, and then use struts to connect the diffuser to the floorpan, in effect using the floorpan to create a 'double-deck' diffuser.

Thanks for that PitMarshal. I also subsequently found this diagram on the F1 web site:
http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2009/0/623.html
which seems to show what you're referring to. Dated 2nd February

This makes the position of Williams, Brawn and Toyota look a bit weaker in my eyes... if the high floor of the car is acting as a diffuser, doesn't that mean it is a diffuser? And therefore subject to the height limit for a diffuser?

[Soypopetype]

What kind of stupid situation are we in where 3 teams have stated which parts they intend to run in Australia and yet there's still debate as to their legality? We could have the embarassing sight of cars which have done well in the race being disqualified afterwards on a technicality, confusing and alienating viewers and fans.

Agree 100%.

Pathetic

WT

[Justlovemy]

It is not so abnormal that the teams try constantly to interpret the rules to thier advantage .
They found an area where the regs , in thier interpretation , where they can gain some down force .

The others will have the same idea on the boards , or even farther in process , in case the protest doesn't work .
They will happily run with the same extra diffuser bits if they are seen to be ok with the stewards . They will just be behind in the development of it .

As I see it , the teams running with the new bits have found a reasonable loop-hole . They will be raced , and the decision will not be to disqualify , but to re-write the rules to greater clarify that it is not allowed .
It will be a "spirit of the rules" issue , and will take effect 4 races in , if the rules will be changed at all .


It seems to me that the issue could not have been sorted out better , if you look at it this way :
The new diffuser design did not happen over night . It took a lot of time to produce , as all F1 parts do when new . It is the issue all teams without it face .
To remove it now dumps those teams , having tested the car with the device , immediately in the bin . That's not a good option .
The other teams , at this point , will have developed a similar option , and it will continue if the idea is accepted .
So , they will not be as far behind .

If the FIA state that it is legal or illegal now , or through it's stewards at the race in a few days , it will set the teams on the same road at the same time .

They will all know how fast it is for real , and FOTA will have to ask itself which road is the better one .
If it's that much faster that it has those teams way down the road , then it's no good .
If it's that much faster that it brings in some different players in the mix , levelling the field for these first few races , then it it's good .

It's good for the suspense factor , and quite possibly will produce some fine racing , one way or the other .

Essentially , the FIA seems to be setting FOTA up for a fall , but it might just see the solidification of the whole thing .

Hopefully FOTA can rule the heads of those who might protest , and ask them first if a protest is indeed the right road .

[golfmenorca]

Red Bull Racing has said it will protest rival Brawn GP over the design of its diffuser if the team's current design passes scrutineering at Melbourne on Thursday. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73876

[Zzvukttz]

This makes the position of Williams, Brawn and Toyota look a bit weaker in my eyes... if the high floor of the car is acting as a diffuser, doesn't that mean it is a diffuser? And therefore subject to the height limit for a diffuser?

Agree.
It not only acts like one but it also looks like one.
Those teams are in fact running a double diffuser.

We could call a horse a mule, it will still be a horse. The same with this diffuser charade.

[Zzvukttz]

Red Bull Racing has said it will protest rival Brawn GP over the design of its diffuser if the team's current design passes scrutineering at Melbourne on Thursday.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73876 If indeed they asked the FIA about the implementation of a similar concept in their car and they were told it wouldn't be legal, than they are right to complain.

How the heck can the FIA technical guys be so dumbe to say no to one team last season and say yes to other teams now?!

[rolex-buy]

IMO "spirit of the law" shouldn't come into it. This is a technical competition, not a tea party. Either it's legal or it ain't. If you manage to find a loophole that can be exploited, well call me old fashioned but I've always believed in rewarding intelligence and original thinking, not punishing it.

Buy all means adapt the 2010 rules to close this loophole, but in the mean time, anyone who hasn't been clever enough needs to just suck it up.

[Usendyduexy]

I hope that these three teams are given green light

[shemadagaswer]

Obviously it won't be easy to make a clear-cut one-sided decision for the stewards' either. There is a notable risk in declaring all three diffusers illegal: not only will the tightness of competition decrease, but it could well mean Toyota's decisive departure from F1 and greater financial uncertainty for Williams and Brawn GP. It's a game with high odds.

The key question remains: Will FOTA see this Max's attempt to brake their unity through and do they manage to respond accordingly without creating too much rifts in themselves?

[fygESytT]

The same "stupid situation" there has been for years. The same "stupid situation" that has been in existence since you and I first started watching.

Hasn't put us off yet.

Teams will always turn up with something that has interpreted the rules in ways that weren't the intention of the rule. That's the case in every level of motorsport, FIA run or otherwise.

It's always left to the race scrutineers to make a decision as to legality. Always has, always will be.

Colin Chapman fell foul of that, and he wasn't alone or unusual.

The fault, if that is what you believe it to be, isn't with the organisers, it's with the concept of competition....which is the reason we watch in the first place.

Catch 22.

But the result that does no-one, nor the concept of competition, any good is post-race dispute and exclusion.

[Usendyduexy]

Obviously it won't be easy to make a clear-cut one-sided decision for the stewards' either. There is a notable risk in declaring all three diffusers illegal: not only will the tightness of competition decrease, but it could well mean Toyota's decisive departure from F1 and greater financial uncertainty for Williams and Brawn GP. It's a game with high odds.

The key question remains: Will FOTA see this Max's attempt to brake their unity through and do they manage to respond accordingly without creating too much rifts in themselves?

Thats why I think that a compromise will be reached - the diffusers will be banned for the start of the European season

[DoctoBuntonTen]

Agree.
It not only acts like one but it also looks like one.
Those teams are in fact running a double diffuser.

We could call a horse a mule, it will still be a horse. The same with this diffuser charade.

Or you could call a mass-damper an aerodynamic device, and then it would become an aerodynamic device

Expect a rule "clarification" in time for Europe.

[Hujkmlopes]

So which teams are running with goalposts?

Now don't be silly, we all know that the teams running goalposts will be declared illegal, appealed, annointed, christened, touched, tweaked and then decleared legal, until the rings around uranus start interfering with Bernies divorce and Max's bottom starts to bleed again. At which point, all teams will be required to field a pair of Routmaster buses complete with conductor and foul mouthed driver..........

What will eventually be allowed will be a basketball net

[Hujkmlopes]

Or you could call a mass-damper an aerodynamic device, and then it would become an aerodynamic device

Expect a rule "clarification" in time for Europe.

If I drive fast enough, my nostril hair becomes an aerodynamic device. Heck, even Max's tickle stick creates a vortex at n+120 mph.........

[Hujkmlopes]

"unfairly using a bigger diffuser,"

Right, that's it. I want to make a complaint.

My wife ran off with the bloke from the Carribean next door, I want to complain that he was unfairly using a bigger.................



I hope that no-one thinks that is racist. Sizeist perhaps........

[Zzvukttz]

Now don't be silly, we all know that the teams running goalposts will be declared illegal, appealed, annointed, christened, touched, tweaked and then decleared legal, until the rings around uranus start interfering with Bernies divorce and Max's bottom starts to bleed again. At which point, all teams will be required to field a pair of Routmaster buses complete with conductor and foul mouthed driver..........

What will eventually be allowed will be a basketball net

I'd hazard a guess, that the rings around Saturn will be the ones at fault this season.

[golfmenorca]

According to the FIA President it's "not my job" to make a decision either way, so he's washed his hands of this one Although suggestion that he's rubbing those hands together at the prospect of the (FOTA) teams protesting each other is, of course, wide of the mark