[quorceopporce]

And, surprise!
FOTA called for a press conference in Geneva on the 5th March. They are going to make public their views about what should be done for the future of the sport.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73344

I know someone who will be having sleepless nights from now on!

With this and continued talk of the IRC and WRC being the subject of some sort of merger, which simply has to happen for the good of rallying, it isn't just Bernie who ought to be having sleepless nights, but Max too. These moves on the part of FOTA, no matter how mild the statements turn out to be, and the very existence of the IRC represent a challenge to the supremacy of the FIA in two of its most important branches of world motorsport. It will still end up in authority over F1 and world rallying, I'm pretty sure of that, but it really should wake up and realise that it's not just dissatisfaction with the commercial rights holders that have brought about the rise of FOTA and the IRC.

[HOTgirlsXXL]

the FIA should own F1, not lease the rights to medieval elfs...

Teams owning the sport could work, it certainly didn't work in CART but it worked for example on the English Premier League

[realfan87]

With this and continued talk of the IRC and WRC being the subject of some sort of merger, which simply has to happen for the good of rallying, it isn't just Bernie who ought to be having sleepless nights, but Max too. These moves on the part of FOTA, no matter how mild the statements turn out to be, and the very existence of the IRC represent a challenge to the supremacy of the FIA in two of its most important branches of world motorsport. It will still end up in authority over F1 and world rallying, I'm pretty sure of that, but it really should wake up and realise that it's not just dissatisfaction with the commercial rights holders that have brought about the rise of FOTA and the IRC.

I agree 100%

It will be interesting to see what FOTA's "vision" is and how (or whether) it can be aligned with the aims of the FIA.

[GroosteFoessy]

I disagree, Mateschitz is proof that brains can bring you money.

Well OK then

[endulundaSauh]

I agree 100%

It will be interesting to see what FOTA's "vision" is and how (or whether) it can be aligned with the aims of the FIA.

It doesn't sound like the exhibition is to threaten either FOM or FIA. More a vision for where they see the sport progressing to make it more attractive to the public.

I thought Dennis was very candid when he stated he doesn't agree withs some of the proposed ideas but realised it was about the public and not the idealism of F1.

Hope the DNA isn't over contaminated though

[SpeavaJap]

Bad idea.

You should never have the inmates running the asylum.

works fine in the NBA, NFL, MLB, and NHL, all teams get revenue share, all teams can be somewhat competitive, all teams have the same rules and the same conditions. Ownership is more for financial clarity and clarity of rules than anything else. It would make sense when they pass a rule knowing that all the teams agreed to it rather than being dictated too.

[johnlohanmclee]

why should a guy five minutes in the sport think he has a right to ownership...

I have to agree with those clear thinking individuals who see this for the disaster in waiting it truly is...

[SetSnonejog]

why should a guy five minutes in the sport think he has a right to ownership...

Because he's one of those who invested lots of money (by now it would be a billion USD for sure) in the sport.

Just stop and think about it. Teams invest every year billions on this sport, while CVC and Bernie invested 3 billions once and now are getting back more than all the teams together, every year!

It is obvious that either CVC and Bernie agree to give the teams in excess of 75% of the profit every season or the teams need to take action and dump CVC and Bernie ASAP.

[SetSnonejog]

works fine in the NBA, NFL, MLB, and NHL, all teams get revenue share, all teams can be somewhat competitive, all teams have the same rules and the same conditions. Ownership is more for financial clarity and clarity of rules than anything else. It would make sense when they pass a rule knowing that all the teams agreed to it rather than being dictated too.

I agree with you.
This myth saying that the teams can't do it themselves is just an idea launched by Bernie and for some reason many fans take it for granted when it is just a load of BS.

[endulundaSauh]

I agree with you.
This myth saying that the teams can't do it themselves is just an idea launched by Bernie and for some reason many fans take it for granted when it is just a load of BS.

My dear ioan. Stop and ask yourself what the NFL, NHL etc all have in common?

They are all teams that compete as part of a sport. If the NFL for example was no longer attractive to the Cowboys and Panthers, they wouldn't up stick and join the NHL.

If you had a series with Williams, McLaren, Ferrari and a few other teams in, then it would make more sense for the sport to be closely aligned from a financial perspective. These teams almost exsist to race in F1 and it's in their interest to safeguard the series.

However, if teams like Honda, Toyota and Renault had that control, their primary focus is profit which has little bearing on F1.

[SetSnonejog]

My dear ioan. Stop and ask yourself what the NFL, NHL etc all have in common?

They are all teams that compete as part of a sport. If the NFL for example was no longer attractive to the Cowboys and Panthers, they wouldn't up stick and join the NHL.

If you had a series with Williams, McLaren, Ferrari and a few other teams in, then it would make more sense for the sport to be closely aligned from a financial perspective. These teams almost exsist to race in F1 and it's in their interest to safeguard the series.

However, if teams like Honda, Toyota and Renault had that control, their primary focus is profit which has little bearing on F1.

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say! Maybe a thorough explanation would help.

Your dear Ioan!

[endulundaSauh]

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say! Maybe a thorough explanation would help.

Your dear Ioan!

< Janet and John mode >

F1 is a lot more transient than the other sports mentioned with far less interest from teams and manufacturers (i.e. Posh Sponsors) running teams.

To allow those people to govern F1 finances would result in catastrophic short term decision making and be a disaster for the sport.

I'm no fan of Bernie and think more money needs to be recognised by the teams but you have to admit, he has driven F1 forward abd been very sucessful at it because it's his bread and butter.

< /Janet and John mode >

[NickGrass]

works fine in the NBA, NFL, MLB, and NHL, all teams get revenue share, all teams can be somewhat competitive, all teams have the same rules and the same conditions. Ownership is more for financial clarity and clarity of rules than anything else. It would make sense when they pass a rule knowing that all the teams agreed to it rather than being dictated too.

The thing is that joint ownership and administration is only feasible if rules are totally stable. When was the last major rule change in football, American football, basketball or whatever? On the other hand constant and major regulation changes are par for the course in F1 even if its just to improve safety, costs and performance. Given the vastly different resources available to teams their interests are going to be different, hence the scope for serious crippling disagreement in motorsports is far far greater.

That is why motorsports series run by dictatorships like NASCAR or F1 have done better than those that aren't like IRL/CART.

[SetSnonejog]

< Janet and John mode >

F1 is a lot more transient than the other sports mentioned with far less interest from teams and manufacturers (i.e. Posh Sponsors) running teams.

To allow those people to govern F1 finances would result in catastrophic short term decision making and be a disaster for the sport.

I'm no fan of Bernie and think more money needs to be recognised by the teams but you have to admit, he has driven F1 forward abd been very sucessful at it because it's his bread and butter.

< /Janet and John mode >

You're kidding right?!
You believe that Mateschitz, Williams, Dennis, Mallya and whoever will buy Honda (and that's already 5 teams) will take stupid actions and wouldn't take the right decisions in order to insure that their money give a return for the lots of money they invest?!

Think again.

[SetSnonejog]

The thing is that joint ownership and administration is only feasible if rules are totally stable. When was the last major rule change in football, American football, basketball or whatever? On the other hand constant and major regulation changes are par for the course in F1 even if its just to improve safety, costs and performance. Given the vastly different resources available to teams their interests are going to be different, hence the scope for serious crippling disagreement in motorsports is far far greater.

That is why motorsports series run by dictatorships like NASCAR or F1 have done better than those that aren't like IRL/CART.

The fact that all the decisions within FOTA are taken only with 100% agreement it's enough to ensure that no one will be left out in the cold.

[NickGrass]

The fact that all the decisions within FOTA are taken only with 100% agreement it's enough to ensure that no one will be left out in the cold.

Yep, its consensus decision making. I'm sure you know that the problem with that style of decision making is that one party who disagrees can hold the whole process up, and if anyone disagrees strongly enough they can leave completely torpedoing the whole thing. Thats why almost all organisations of all types around the world go for majority and not consensus rule.

It ain't going to last except in utopia.

[SetSnonejog]

Yep, its consensus decision making. I'm sure you know that the problem with that style of decision making is that one party who disagrees can hold the whole process up, and if anyone disagrees strongly enough they can leave completely torpedoing the whole thing. Thats why almost all organisations of all types around the world go for majority and not consensus rule.

It ain't going to last except in utopia.

Nothing lasts forever anyway.
Still I believe that it's better than if half the teams go bankrupt while Bernie and CVC take most of the profit out of the sport.

[NickGrass]

Nothing lasts forever anyway.
Still I believe that it's better than if half the teams go bankrupt while Bernie and CVC take most of the profit out of the sport.

Well, if half the teams go bankrupt Bernie will send some cash their way to keep them ticking over, better that than have no F1 at all to inflate his bank account.

I agree that things would be better without CVC but they are now locked into the sport and have very little wiggling room to negotiate, thats why I'm pessimistic about FOTA's chances of negotiating more money.

[SpeavaJap]

Yep, its consensus decision making. I'm sure you know that the problem with that style of decision making is that one party who disagrees can hold the whole process up, and if anyone disagrees strongly enough they can leave completely torpedoing the whole thing. Thats why almost all organisations of all types around the world go for majority and not consensus rule.

It ain't going to last except in utopia.

My god, folks here are speaking up against transparency, democracy and equality LOL

1.Team owned leagues are not utopia, in fact they are the norm from the premiership to the the big 4 in the united states.

2. Although the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL are team owned, they still have a commissioner, a valid punishment system for violations by players and teams, a rules committee, proper revenue sharing, financial incentives based on performance, teams still fold, new teams still come in, propr opportunities for dissent without vindictiveness. Clear media contracts. Independant sponsorships and marketing strategies by teams, and most importantly no dictatorships!

3. Nascar is a dictatorship and borders on sports entertainment than true competition. Many situations and issues are manufactured to make the sport "entertaining" and neutered. Its biggest attraction to the fans is a potential for a multi-car wreck, which the broadcasters play up ni anticipation like giddy kids on xmas eve. Nascar works because its a marketing machine. and is ideally customized to attract legions of fans in the southeast untied states and a "certain type " of demograsphic elswhere. Inspite of that, at least they have fairly transparent rules (although they change when one team succeeds) and a clear money structure that anyowne can see for themselves.

[NickGrass]

My god, folks here are speaking up against transparency, democracy and equality LOL

1.Team owned leagues are not utopia, in fact they are the norm from the premiership to the the big 4 in the united states.

2. Although the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL are team owned, they still have a commissioner, a valid punishment system for violations by players and teams, a rules committee, proper revenue sharing, financial incentives based on performance, teams still fold, new teams still come in, propr opportunities for dissent without vindictiveness. Clear media contracts. Independant sponsorships and marketing strategies by teams, and most importantly no dictatorships!

3. Nascar is a dictatorship and borders on sports entertainment than true competition. Many situations and issues are manufactured to make the sport "entertaining" and neutered. Its biggest attraction to the fans is a potential for a multi-car wreck, which the broadcasters play up ni anticipation like giddy kids on xmas eve. Nascar works because its a marketing machine. and is ideally customized to attract legions of fans in the southeast untied states and a "certain type " of demograsphic elswhere. Inspite of that, at least they have fairly transparent rules (although they change when one team succeeds) and a clear money structure that anyowne can see for themselves.

Refer to post 33 as to my explanation as to why your argument is invalid for F1.