[giftbestcom]

Not a great surprise, he was standing down at the end of 2007 until the whole Spygate thing came along.

He's certainly played a major part in McLaren's recent success, and can retire quite happy knowing that the gamble to stick Lewis Hamilton in a car so early on was well rewarded.

[LeviBrawn]

So with Ron moving on to pastures new, who's in the firing line to get the top job at McLaren?

Anthony Hamilton

[Discus]

That may be the case. Maybe.

"If he would have admitted at the first World Council hearing that his team made mistakes, everything would have been much easier for him. But we had to press the facts out of his drivers, find evidence in the police files and invest immense time to bring the truth forward.

At the first hearing he reassured us that he had investigated everything and everybody in his team and that only one person had knowledge of the Ferrari papers. But then it became evident that a prominent member of his team - one of his drivers - was in on this. This did not build faith in Ron Dennis"

http://www.formula1.com/news/intervi...7/10/7014.html

That was what I was alluding to. Ron had ample opportunity to behave like a "statesman" in 2007.

He didn't take the first and most important of those opportunities.

Which is a tragedy, because up until then, although I found his personality odious (and, yes, I have met him) I would never have questioned his integrity.

His willingness to be less than perfect with regards to the initial internal investigation raises serious questions about that integrity, especially given his obsessive attention to detail in all other areas of his career.

I must be honest, I'm suprised at the wording of Max there, 'if he had admitted' implies he lied.

That however is Max's opinion, and wouldn't take it for fact. Notice he does state in same interview that he had no idea whether or not Dennis deliberately concealled anything.

So whilst I remember we've debated this in length, and I've come to have an approach of we'll have to agree to disagree - I personally don't believed he ever lied.

With regards to the statement of he had biggest fine in history of FIA, as if to suggest its worst crime in history of any FIA regulated motorsport, it should be noted that this large fine was only dished out because of the size of McLaren. As Max says in same interview - "Had we to deal with one of the smaller teams, the fine would have been lower."

[SarSerceSaice]

I must be honest, I'm suprised at the wording of Max there, 'if he had admitted' implies he lied.

That however is Max's opinion, and wouldn't take it for fact. Notice he does state in same interview that he had no idea whether or not Dennis deliberately concealled anything.

So whilst I remember we've debated this in length, and I've come to have an approach of we'll have to agree to disagree - I personally don't believed he ever lied.

With regards to the statement of he had biggest fine in history of FIA, as if to suggest its worst crime in history of any FIA regulated motorsport, it should be noted that this large fine was only dished out because of the size of McLaren. As Max says in same interview - "Had we to deal with one of the smaller teams, the fine would have been lower."

15 September 2007


Max Mosley explained: "In the morning of the Hungarian Grand Prix, Ron rang me and he said, 'I've just had Alonso in the motorhome and he says he's got information and he's threatening to give it to the Federation'. So I said, 'What did you say Ron?'. He said, 'I said, go on and hand it over'.

"I said, 'Ron, you said exactly the right thing'. And then Ron said, 'But there isn't any information'. So I said, 'So it's an empty threat?'. And he replied, 'Yes, a completely empty threat. There's no information, there's nothing to come out; I can assure you that if there was something, Max, I would have told you'.

"Now this was a week after looking me in the eye in the World Council and telling me there was absolutely nothing wrong and everybody had done exactly as they should do, so I believed him. I've known Ron for 40 years; it's very difficult for me, when somebody I've known for 40 years looks me in the eye and says, 'Max, I'm telling the truth with complete sincerity' - you believe him.

"It was only when I got the list from the Italian police (showing) 323 SMS phone calls going over a three-month period between Coughlan and Stepney, (that I concluded) there had to be more to this. You don't get 300 messages arranging a visit to Honda. This is something serious. At which point, I sat down and wrote the letter to the drivers (asking for their evidence), and the rest is history.''

Ron Dennis though insisted that he acted with total integrity throughout the whole affair. "I don't want to get into the detail, but I do want to address one thing, and that is that when someone asks me a question - and I've answered some difficult questions - at the time I made those answers I told the complete truth,'' Dennis said. "At the point of the first hearing, when I was asked the question did I know anything more, the truth was, I didn't.

"The emails that passed between our drivers were as big a surprise to me when I heard, as anyone else - and as I said, if they existed, what I said to Fernando was that he must give them to the FIA. I just want to be very clear that at no stage did I ever say any lie to anybody. I put my integrity above everything. I just want to be very clear about that particular point.'' Of all the rubbish going around, I think Ron told the truth and was unaware that this had gone beyond Stepney / Couglan as Max later admitted.

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2007/...d-to-the-wmsc/

[agildeta]

For christ's sake turn the page!

[giftbestcom]

Makes you wonder what happened to Stepney/Coughlan really.

Oh yeah, I remember. Nothing.

[SetSnonejog]

About time he goes.
I'm not surprised anymore that he didn't see that his team were cheating in 2007, now he can't even see that there is an "E" missing in the McLaren name on the window behind him!

[wowwieholmes]

Not a great surprise, he was standing down at the end of 2007 until the whole Spygate thing came along.

He's certainly played a major part in McLaren's recent success, and can retire quite happy knowing that the gamble to stick Lewis Hamilton in a car so early on was well rewarded.

[Stoottnoiciek]

About time he goes.
I'm not surprised anymore that he didn't see that his team were cheating in 2007, now he can't even see that there is an "E" missing in the McLaren name on the window behind him!

Right on!

[MeatteCen]

Ron Dennis is a great team principle. I have spit venom him many times, but now, after the announcement, I think that I will miss him. I, for once, will not remember him as a cheater, but as a man, who was dedicated a 100% to his team and sometimes made questionable decisions, but above all as a GREAT team principle and a legend of the sport.
Hats down, Ron.

[Zpxbawtz]

I totally agree with F1 boat,Ron has done a brilliant job at Mclaren,he was pationate and lived and breathed for the team,and will take some replacing.
I dont think he lied,as all the teams cheat,and probably the red car from Italy the most,but they hold the prime card,and Ron at times must have felt as if he was in a losing battle with all the stupid decisions made against them

[bataovady]

Ron Dennis is a true legend in F1, like also for example Frank Williams. Sure, he has had some moments of embarrassment (like 2007), but being at the top and in constant spotlight for several decades, situations of failure are inevitable. My first memories are mainly related to Ron's great success. He took the team over in 1981, when the team was struggling greatly (just a handful of points achieved during the previous couple of years). But they managed to come back and with TAG-Porsche engines McLaren finally reached the very desired No.1 spot after almost a decade. Having worked together with both Senna and Prost at the same time must be quite an invaluable experience. McLaren lived through some difficult periods in mid-90's (at worst case scenario they might have ended as Williams - endless midfield privateer), but with Mercedes stability was refound and patience brought top success again.

[awagsFare]

Ron Dennis is a great team principle. I have spit venom him many times, but now, after the announcement, I think that I will miss him. I, for once, will not remember him as a cheater, but as a man, who was dedicated a 100% to his team and sometimes made questionable decisions, but above all as a GREAT team principle and a legend of the sport.
Hats down, Ron.

precisely and well said.

not his biggest fan per say, but huge respect for his accomplishments and contribution to Mclaren and the sport. I'll toast to his career.

[awagsFare]

and at the other end of the spectrum we have this clown

Nick Fry
http://eurosport.yahoo.com/16012009/...-interest.html

[EvonsRorgon]

Ron Dennis is a true legend in F1, like also for example Frank Williams. Sure, he has had some moments of embarrassment (like 2007), but being at the top and in constant spotlight for several decades, situations of failure are inevitable. My first memories are mainly related to Ron's great success. He took the team over in 1981, when the team was struggling greatly (just a handful of points achieved during the previous couple of years). But they managed to come back and with TAG-Porsche engines McLaren finally reached the very desired No.1 spot after almost a decade. Having worked together with both Senna and Prost at the same time must be quite an invaluable experience. McLaren lived through some difficult periods in mid-90's (at worst case scenario they might have ended as Williams - endless midfield privateer), but with Mercedes stability was refound and patience brought top success again.

Great post. It'll be strange not seeing him on the pitwall for many grands prix this year.

[venediene]

Great post. It'll be strange not seeing him on the pitwall for many grands prix this year.

[HQTheodore]

and at the other end of the spectrum we have this clown

Nick Fry
http://eurosport.yahoo.com/16012009/...-interest.html

Why have I got a horrible feeling this one will have a long and fruitless career in F1?

[maysubers]

Ron Dennis is a true legend in F1, like also for example Frank Williams. Sure, he has had some moments of embarrassment (like 2007), but being at the top and in constant spotlight for several decades, situations of failure are inevitable. My first memories are mainly related to Ron's great success. He took the team over in 1981, when the team was struggling greatly (just a handful of points achieved during the previous couple of years). But they managed to come back and with TAG-Porsche engines McLaren finally reached the very desired No.1 spot after almost a decade. Having worked together with both Senna and Prost at the same time must be quite an invaluable experience. McLaren lived through some difficult periods in mid-90's (at worst case scenario they might have ended as Williams - endless midfield privateer), but with Mercedes stability was refound and patience brought top success again.

I agree.
Ron has been a good "enemy" to have. It won`t be the same with that whitmarsh running things at McLaren.

[DouseAuthott]

he was a great team principle .. I know I will miss him on the pitwall.

[Discus]

I wasn't actually arguing the 'lie' point, just pointing out that if Ron had taken the matter seriously when he first had the opportunity, as a man with his control-freak obssession should have done, then Spygate would not have been such a big deal.

Why such a legendary control-freak didn't get to the bottom of the issue as soon as the story broke has never been fully answered. Come to think of it, nobody has ever answered it. Not knowing what was going on, being lied to by his employees (which evidently must have happened) just does not add up.

That is why there will always be serious doubts about his actions, his depth of knowledge and his integrity.



But it was Mclaren, so it was the biggest fine in motorsport history.

And, as I've said before, that is the real tragedy of it, and it's a tragedy that Ron could so easily have avoided. That's his fault, and his fault alone.

What his motives were, we will never know.

I pretty much agree with most of what you said.

I think Ron's biggest failure in 2007 was believing too much in the company, he's set a standard throughout the team, so when the allegations were made, he simply didn't believe if it was true, presumably he enquired about it, the truth failed to come out, and he took their word.

So when he launched an investigation, the investigation was quite simply.....pointless - it wasn't designed to uncover lies, hence it failed.

And in this respect, Ron Dennis failed miserable.

But I feel compassion for the man, he was betrayed himself. He blatantly loves the company. And you have to wonder how hard it would have been to get all the information out.

Majority of evidence only came out by legal enforcement - and the threat of banning drivers AND constructors and the 2008 season.

And whilst I agree with you, I do feel your taking the "avoided so easily" philosphy bit too serious. I don't think it could easily have been avoided at the time, with hindsight maybe.

But what fustrates me most is fact that there doesn't seem to be any concensus with regards to spying. There isn't a black and white line of what is too far? We've established its illegal to carry over a hard copy of information from one team to another - how about remembering information and carrying that over?

With no clear line - I suspect that this unfortunately is pretty common practice within F1. And its just fact it involved both top teams, the media pounced, and made it the issue it is.