[vSzsgifP]

Nah, Honda have supplied the IRL with engines for ages, as did Cosworth with engines for Champcar for several years too. I don't think there were (m)any instances of mass-failures on a given weekend. I seem to recall an issue with the pit-lane speed limiter coming on instead of the power-to-pass in a Champcar race, but I think that was due to the electronics rather than the engine....

[lasadeykar]

But .... if we take a look at 70's we will see that there were periods when only two manufacturers of engines had participated - Ferrari and ...Cosworth

And I never saw that was a bad thing! F1 in the 70's were about teams and drivers and chassis innovation, but the engines were almost entirely left to Cosworth. It didn't matter if the car had ground effects, or a sucker fan, or six wheels or moveable aerodynamics, the field had the same basic power, which was a good thing. If you wanted to race, you could always buy a March and a Cossie and show up to race and knew you at least weren't immediately handicapped by the lump behind the driver. It might have been full season, It might have been a rotataing driver line up, Teams might have been race to race but the teams that wanted to race came to race when they could. I can see a lot of similarities between what we may see in the coming seasons and the 70's. I have to say, it's a rare occasion when I actually welcome a return of a decade I choose to block out most of the time, but it really was a time I remember fondly that was the core of my years as a kid.

[lasadeykar]

I agree. After all, while Ford may have famously made nothing of the fact that its engines powered Michael Schumacher to world championship glory in 1994, I don't think that will have done them much harm!

In all the hoo-hah about this, we shouldn't forget that it will still be perfectly possible for other companies to build F1 engines and supply them to more than one team. I hope we see a bit of competition in this respect, albeit regulated by restrictions on costs, for otherwise we will see them spiralling again. If Cosworth can produce a good engine for a good price, surely others can?

One note of caution, though. Using spec engines brings with it a whole range of possibilities for controversy if those engines aren't up to scratch in some way. If enough teams use the same engine and there's a common fault, the impact could be severe — Indianapolis 2005 all over again, maybe?

Cosworth has a long history of providing an entire series engines with incredible durability and very tightly matched performance with the Xf in Cart/Champcar. An engine that I'd actually rather see than the V10 being offered. I have to say, F1 may finally have an eonomis reason for adopting a chassis and engine regulation similar to CART in the 90's that was ultra competetive, yet still a small fraction of the cost of a contemporary F1 program.

When you remove the competetion for ever increasing power from the engine regulations, you also remove or minimise the inherent failures associated with constantly pushing the envelope. If a problem developed, evreyone is affected. I wouldn't worry about their ability to produce a reliable controlled engine at all. Cosworth and Toyota and even Honda for that matter all have a long history of doing it in CART and the IRL, Renault has done it in WSR, and even Ferrari is doing it in A1GP. I"d much prefer seeing a return to manufacturers building engines and teams having a chioce of where their chassis comes from

I suspect what is being offered by Cosworth is merely a lower cost and detuned version of their well tested and pretty reliable V10 from a couple years ago.

[AngelinaTheElf]

We have to be careful about drawing too many parallels between the past and the possible future...in the late 70's, although many teams used the Cosworth DFV engine, not all the teams had equal powerplant versions. You could have a Cosworth DFV rebuilt by a number of different engine builders, some of whom had "development" variants which were more powerful. I remember reading an article about Roberto Guerrero, who drove for Ensign in 1981, being told by Patrick Head that he had 40 bhp less than the Williams drivers that year. Williams were using John Judd's Engine Developments as a rebuilder for most of their engines, and their DFVs were the most powerful on the grid in the last 3-4 years of the non-turbo era.
With the standard engine, it looks like there will not be any external rebuilders allowed, so the playing field will be level. The only remaining question will be how the FIA chooses to equalize the performance of any remaining manufacturer engines.

[Adimonnna]

Not only does it mean that more teams can compete, but that the advantages of the richer teams will be in areas that do not provide as much of a boost over the competition. So tighter races and larger grid, under this cosworth spec. Some would say it's an artificial way to create better racing, but if you look at a very spec league like IRL with 9 winners in 18 races last season, it does work out to increase the importance of the driver and team over the technology. I think it's a sad situation for F1 to go this route, but it will not necessarily be terrible for the racing. Hopefully it is a temporary plan over the next 3-5 seasons, but is F1 increasing in sponsors and popularity or not? If not, this could go on for quite a long time. I do not think spec chassis will come into play, but less consumers go for a Ferrari for its "great chassis" than for its fast engines.

[estheticianI]

It was reported last week that Fernando Alonso said he would quit Formula one if standard engines were introduced.

Double world champion Alonso said: "If they approve a single engine that would be the last straw.

"It would be time to start thinking about retirement." foxsports.com


I hope for the sports sake that this was just one of his off the cuff rash statements. Renault have now shown interest in committing to this possibility so I hope Fernando is not a man of his word as Formula one would be a poorer place as a result.

[Immampdah]

It was reported last week that Fernando Alonso said he would quit Formula one if standard engines were introduced.

Double world champion Alonso said: "If they approve a single engine that would be the last straw.

"It would be time to start thinking about retirement." foxsports.com


I hope for the sports sake that this was just one of his off the cuff rash statements. Renault have now shown interest in committing to this possibility so I hope Fernando is not a man of his word as Formula one would be a poorer place as a result.

I guess he will not have to use an imposed standard engine when he moves to Ferrari.

[estheticianI]

I guess he will not have to use an imposed standard engine when he moves to Ferrari.

Thats a fair point but not confirmed.

[Si8jy8HN]

While the FIA's actions in terms of rule changes in recent years have hardly been praiseworthy, the required action now has to happen in the short term, surely?

Indeed, but I do question what role the FIA should have in determining what the teams can and cannot spend. I think the finance available to the teams themselves from sponsorship and their boards of directors will determine that, as they always have done.

We've already seen that Red Bull's senior management are looking at making up to a 30 per cent cost reduction at the team over the next 12 months. That's economic reality talking, not the FIA.

Fundamental changes are being imposed on F1 at the moment and while the external economic factors are inevitable in the current climate I'm not at all convinced that the FIA needs to step in to the extent that it is. I also don't agree with these kind of decisions being taken already when the FIA is yet to meet with FOTA to discuss their proposals. That meeting is due to happen today, but I do wonder if there is any point given the FIA's stance.

The FIA's reaction to the current situation reminds me somewhat of their response to Imola 1994. Then, as now, F1 and its' governing body was very much in the media spotlight, although for very different reasons obviously. I think then many felt that there was an overreaction led by the need to be seen to be doing something. A chicane put at the bottom of Eau Rouge was a very visible something, but it wasn't necessary and was quickly removed next time around. The changes being made to F1 now may not be so easy to reverse.

Easy, like they did it until now: "Renault = Champions du monde pilotes/constructeurs de la F1"

Where do they specify the engine? Nowhere!
What does the average Jean-Pierre know about what engine is in the back of that Renault F1 car? Nothing. And does he care? No!

That's a good point. Does it really matter if a manufacturer sticks their badge on the engine and claims it as their own? You're probably right that the average Jean-Pierre won't know or care. Also, we've had the Petronas (Ferrari), Supertech (Renault), Ilmor (Mercedes), and Megatron (BMW) in the past.

[Caliwany]

I would have thought that, instead of making a single engine supply which would force manufacturers out of F1. They should come up with some very tightly controlled regulations on what you can and can't do with your engines, but allow enough scope for engine builders to be able to do at least some innovation.

Then you bring in a rule which says that anyone should be able to come along and buy your engine for a fixed price.

[Si8jy8HN]

I would have thought that, instead of making a single engine supply which would force manufacturers out of F1. They should come up with some very tightly controlled regulations on what you can and can't do with your engines, but allow enough scope for engine builders to be able to do at least some innovation.

Then you bring in a rule which says that anyone should be able to come along and buy your engine for a fixed price.

The FIA has previously asked teams to come up with a proposal to supply independent teams with engines for five million Euros per season.

[Si8jy8HN]

Just spotted this on the BBC's website:

The FIA issued a statement on Tuesday claiming: "There has been a very positive response from the F1 teams regarding our engine proposals.

"It would be inappropriate to comment on the reaction of any individual team, or give further details, in advance of Friday's [FIA] World Council meeting."

This led to reports that Renault was particularly keen to adopt the standard powertrain. Yet the French team responded by issuing its own statement, saying it "would like to state that the positions of the team and Renault are in complete accordance to those of Fota. "We would like to point out that neither (team boss) Mr Briatore nor Renault have spoken to the press regarding this matter."

[hitaEtela]

Well, Friday will be interesting.

What's the betting that the teams will come up with an alternative to supply engines for a fixed cost?

[Si8jy8HN]

Well, Friday will be interesting.

Today's FIA/FOTA meeting could be as well, although given that Max has already "hinted that measures being proposed by the teams do not go far enough" according to Autosport I suspect FOTA's proposals will largely be dismissed in favour of Max's come Friday.

[AndyScouchek]

Nah, Honda have supplied the IRL with engines for ages, as did Cosworth with engines for Champcar for several years too. I don't think there were (m)any instances of mass-failures on a given weekend. I seem to recall an issue with the pit-lane speed limiter coming on instead of the power-to-pass in a Champcar race, but I think that was due to the electronics rather than the engine....

No disrespect to Cosworth, they're a small company and their recent track record in F1 isn't particularly good is it?

Williams suffered numerous engine failures in 2006.

Can't remember the engine supplier but there was the Grand Prix Master meeting at Silverstone when most of the grid suffered engine failure at practice.

Hate to think of the implications of a high rate of attrition over a GP weekend.

[Immampdah]

No disrespect to Cosworth, they're a small company and their recent track record in F1 isn't particularly good is it?

Williams suffered numerous engine failures in 2006.

Can't remember the engine supplier but there was the Grand Prix Master meeting at Silverstone when most of the grid suffered engine failure at practice.

Hate to think of the implications of a high rate of attrition over a GP weekend.

Don't worry, it will be Ferrari's and MS' fault like Indy 2005!

[Si8jy8HN]

Can't remember the engine supplier but there was the Grand Prix Master meeting at Silverstone when most of the grid suffered engine failure at practice.

IIRC they were provided by Nicholson McLaren Engines.

[STYWOMBORGOSY]

No disrespect to Cosworth, they're a small company and their recent track record in F1 isn't particularly good is it?

Williams suffered numerous engine failures in 2006.

Can't remember the engine supplier but there was the Grand Prix Master meeting at Silverstone when most of the grid suffered engine failure at practice.

Hate to think of the implications of a high rate of attrition over a GP weekend.

The Williams failures of 06 were down to Williams built parts, anilareies like the cooling and exhaust.

The GPM engines were Cosworth XF (champ car) engines re built and tuned by Nicholson-McLaren (not the F1 team), and was entirely N-M's fault for poor work as the XF has a geat track record for reliability and equality between units.

People have pointed to the 70's when there was only Cosworth and Ferrari and ocaisonally Renault and Alfa, but the difference is that back then the engine companies were in direct competition with each other. Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW and Toyota will all have better engines than Cosworth because they have more to spend, plus 3 years of development over the lst Cosworth V8 of 06 (assuming that it will be based on that engine)but it will be useless because Max is going to peg them back to the Cosworths performance.

Someone mentioned that Champ Car had something similar in the late 90's/early 2000's but fails to mention that it led to Handa, Toyota and Mercedes all pulling out and Toyota and Honda took half the teams with them to the IRL.

[vSzsgifP]

CART cocked that one up though by introducing a new pop-off valve rule mid-way through a season to appease one manufacturer, then found that 3/4 of their engine suppliers promptly left the series. I don't think it's really fair to draw comparisons between that and F1's current predicament.

[STYWOMBORGOSY]

CART cocked that one up though by introducing a new pop-off valve rule mid-way through a season to appease one manufacturer, then found that 3/4 of their engine suppliers promptly left the series. I don't think it's really fair to draw comparisons between that and F1's current predicament.

The pop off valve had been in use for a few years to controle power, but it was constant tinkering with the rules (seem familier) that created unrest and forced the manufacturers out.