[adultcheee]

Does everbody remember how poor BAR were up until 2002 and then Prodrive's influence kicked in 2003 when they attracted a talented driver (Button) and had a competitive car that was a regular point scorer. Then in 2004 when suddenly they seemed cost efficient (in a Formula 1 sense) and had a very quick car and a good driver, Finishing 2nd in the constructers championship.

Then you had that whole thing with Button deciding he didn't want to stay, blah, blah unloyal etc. Honda bought out B.A.R won a race, other than that been very poor.

Dave Richards/Prodrive really did turn that team around, sorting out sponsors, getting in the right people and cuting expenditure where it wasn't needed and most importantly puting a competitive car on the pit lane.

This was all while toyota were spending big and struggling, then Honda bought BAR out brought in their own people and them and Toyoto sort of switched places.

I never really had much time for Nick Fry but David Richards always struck me as somebody who knew about the sport.

I really think after all the success of 2004 they've been an absolute shambles with their budget and facilities, particually these past two years with the 'earth car'.

Thoughts?

[DfrtYhyu]

Pretty much agree with all of that.

DR is a complex character that people seem to love to hate. He is an abrasive little weasel at times but does get results. I quite liken him to Sir Clive Woodward.

Perhaps he is considering spending a quid

[quorceopporce]

I really think after all the success of 2004 they've been an absolute shambles with their budget and facilities, particually these past two years with the 'earth car'.

Interestingly, this has been cited in the British media as one reason for the team's downfall, because the lack of other sponsors meant Honda had to stump up more towards the team.

[adultcheee]

Interestingly, this has been cited in the British media as one reason for the team's downfall, because the lack of other sponsors meant Honda had to stump up more towards the team.

Totally, the fact is, how is having an earth on the car going to raise awareness? The team and car just looked un-professional aswell kitted out with all the earth stuff. Funny I was excited to see what official Honda livery the car would have this year.

[Immampdah]

The demise of Dave Richards was the moment of their downfall, that's clear.
What isn't clear is why did they do that?
Why kick out DR and keep a clown like Fry? Never understood this one.

[wmirkru]

I'm waiting to see how long it is before somebody blames Villeneuve's departure for all Honda's woes....

[DfrtYhyu]

I'm waiting to see how long it is before somebody blames Villeneuve's departure for all Honda's woes....

Naughty, naughty

(Enter Uncle Fousto stage Left)

[DfrtYhyu]

Here we go. Someone wheeled the ageing Canadian rocker out.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72347

[Pelefaifs]

I'm waiting to see how long it is before somebody blames Villeneuve's departure for all Honda's woes....

Since the cowboy isn't around , I'll sub for him .

Davy-boy brought a storm into the team , and it was his arrival , not his departure , that blew Hondas chances .
While replacing Pollack was a good idea , doing it without any warning at the press conference was never going to create anything but fear and loathing in the team .
Willis was on board to fix the Reynard nightmare the team had been , and Dave walked in .

It would be just like Dave to be sniffing around , with the team starting to talk about potential again .
He's just sold a share to some Middle Easterners , so backing should be in place .

The image of a vulture comes to mind . Fousto would understand the reference and surely agree .

[movlabz]

Funny enough, I remember posting on this very forum in 2004 (well the old incarnation) when the Honda take over and Prodrive/Richards departure was announced.

I remember saying that BAR (as it was then) risked going the way of Jaguar (who had just quit). Most disagreed saying Honda != Ford and I guess over 2005, 2006 they looked to have been right.

But I guess I was proved right, and I take no pleasure in that. A race-savvy, successful, proven person/organisation was replaced by various layers of corporate management, just like when Ford took over Stewart (who, like pre-Honda ownership BAR, were a promising team threatening to crack the top 3/4 teams.

Same starting point, same actions, same result.

[Vegeinvalge]

Since the cowboy isn't around , I'll sub for him .

Davy-boy brought a storm into the team , and it was his arrival , not his departure , that blew Hondas chances .
While replacing Pollack was a good idea , doing it without any warning at the press conference was never going to create anything but fear and loathing in the team .
Willis was on board to fix the Reynard nightmare the team had been , and Dave walked in .

It would be just like Dave to be sniffing around , with the team starting to talk about potential again .
He's just sold a share to some Middle Easterners , so backing should be in place .

The image of a vulture comes to mind . Fousto would understand the reference and surely agree .

We all know that changes in F1 are not done overnight. The brief success of
Honda was a development effort by Willis, Clear and JV. Prix Richard immediately destroyed the finally found continuity in the team. So the results are not a big surprise. I recall Clear and JV rebuilding the ass end of the car during the season where JV announced the car was not born "well".
This was before the Willis car arrived.

Many of you continue to rag on JV despite of the clear track that has shown the opposite.

Thanks Bag - one of the few that understands car development.

Look how long it is taking Red Bull. - BMW.

[quorceopporce]

A race-savvy, successful, proven person/organisation was replaced by various layers of corporate management, just like when Ford took over Stewart (who, like pre-Honda ownership BAR, were a promising team threatening to crack the top 3/4 teams.

Worse still, those were various layers of Japanese corporate management, for, as plenty of examples prove, the best Japanese efforts in motorsport have all had an already successful European firm like Prodrive at the helm.

[Heacechig]

Back in 2004 I couldn't simply understand, why Button wanted to leave the rising BAR team, where he had basically #1 status, and they were performing better than Williams. Maybe all this mess about leaving or not created some extra strain inside the team too by destabilizing them, although the Richards -> Fry transition has had obviously more importance.

[movlabz]

Yeah there are still plenty (me included) who think a works backed Williams-Toyota would be far superior to anything those two teams are currently coming up with.

That said, it's going to be a shame to lose Honda altogether, their pedigree as an engine manufacturer in F1 is probably only bettered by Ferrari and Ford/Cosworth (who have already disappeared, Max's standard-engine-compromise thing not withstanding), and I'm sure their engines in the back of a car produced by a proper race team would be a real force to be reckoned with.

[quorceopporce]

Back in 2004 I couldn't simply understand, why Button wanted to leave the rising BAR team, where he had basically #1 status, and they were performing better than Williams. Maybe all this mess about leaving or not created some extra strain inside the team too by destabilizing them, although the Richards -> Fry transition has had obviously more importance.

And I think Button was badly advised.

[Immampdah]

And I think Button was badly advised.

Williams didn't set the world alight either since 2004, at least Button made more money joining Honda than if he stayed with Williams who isn't known to be a one of those teams that pay amazing amounts of money, not even to WDCs. He also became a race winner with Honda, even if it was a mistake of Goddess Fortuna IMO.

[quorceopporce]

Williams didn't set the world alight either since 2004, at least Button made more money joining Honda than if he stayed with Williams who isn't known to be a one of those teams that pay amazing amounts of money, not even to WDCs. He also became a race winner with Honda, even if it was a mistake of Goddess Fortuna IMO.

I really meant that he was badly advised in terms of the situation ending up in utter confusion, rather than Honda being a worse choice. However, in truth, I think Button would have done equally as well over time with Williams as he did with Honda, and probably better in 2008, so things probably evened themselves out over time.

[Immampdah]

I really meant that he was badly advised in terms of the situation ending up in utter confusion, rather than Honda being a worse choice. However, in truth, I think Button would have done equally as well over time with Williams as he did with Honda, and probably better in 2008, so things probably evened themselves out over time.

I agree, it could have went that way.

[Fruriourl]

I'm waiting to see how long it is before somebody blames Villeneuve's departure for all Honda's woes....

Dave, how many times will it take you to pass this test? Please pay attention this time or else the dunce cap will have to be super-glued on permanently.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=23418

[Pelefaifs]

Rickos , nice to see you drop in .

I won't be surprised if Richards ends up in charge again .
I think that would be great .

Fry is in full-on sales mode , hyping hard .

You think Honda's going to want to see someone take the helm and succeed right after the failed ?
They sure didn't want the Super friends beating them .
They built that team to save face , and scuttled it to save face again .

Sell it to Dave Richards , all but the steering wheel .