[strongjannabiz]

So, which questionable penalties have been awarded, which should have been awarded but weren't and who has been the people that gained.

Then I'll compile a Fantasy FIA Feck-up League on what the true standing of the championship should been.

[SaraKonradtt]

Remove Bourdais' penalty. Also remove Hamilton's spa incident as it was debatable and ultimately damaging to the sport.

[SaraKonradtt]

Well there are also a number of penalties for blocking during quali... I'd have to review video of each to see if any are like the one that Alonso got for 'blocking' Massa in Monza a couple years ago.

[LasTins]

Funny that guys here think to be more competent than FIA stewards.

[strongjannabiz]

http://www.ogreview.org/fia/

Looking at it, McLaren have been "penalised" almost as much as the rest of the field put together.

[strongjannabiz]

Funny that guys here think to be more competent than FIA stewards.

Isn't being compared to a FIA Steward a personal attcak

[AM1VV9r6]

Funny that guys here think to be more competent than FIA stewards.

Not difficult which is why it is not funny.

[LasTins]

I agree to disagree - I trust FIA professionals more than you. It's funny that I disliked Massa's penalties in Singapore and Japan, but I am OK with FIA. It's only the McLaren fans who disrespect the organization - because it is not ruling in their favour.
Cute.

[Dyerryjex]

I think it should not be a surprise that those "FIA professionals" are interested in as close title fight as possible. In spicing things up they are indeed professional. It's possible to find examples from almost every season.

Yes, I know there are arguments that they are smarter and more competent than average F1 fans. Well, true. But what we must not forget is that like us they are also human beings with their own interests. We have had scandals of unfair referee decisions in all kinds of sports, be it a ballgame, boxing, sports which demand ratings (gymnastics, etc). What makes you think F1 stewards may not have their own sympathies and interests, which influence decisions?

[stoneeZef]

Don't know how far you're going back, but to my mind the most questionable instance of not getting a penalty (sort of) was when Michael Schumacher served a stop-go after crossing the finishing line at Silverstone - not sure of the year. Surely serving a penalty AFTER crossing the race is no penalty at all but somehow he got away with it. Red car perhaps?

Regards

[Inonanialry]

I think the penalties were justified in almost all cases, it's the punishment that the driver receives that has been completely wrong.

Why should a driver who avoids a collision and cuts a corner (Hamilton, Spa) receive the same penalty as someone who overtakes under the yellow flag? (Glock? at Spa). One is dangerous, one blatantly isn't. Just as a disclaimer, I don't want to argue about Hamilton being right or wrong, this isn't the place for that, but what he did wasn't dangerous - and I think that's a very important distinction to make.

Unsafe release in the pitstop is enormously dangerous (Massa and Sutil, twice), yet receives the same standard drive through (or a paltry fine).

The stewards need more options, and I for one believe that the penalties should be applied after the race as place demotions, rather than time penalties which can be worked around by driving more aggressively. For example, Hamilton could have been demoted one place, Glock and Massa three or so?

I know people disagree with sorting it after the race but it's the only fair way. A drive through cannot be undone.

I know it's not a well thought-through idea, but it's a start!

[Eunatis]

I think Knockie is referring to incidents relating to this years championship (hence re-calculating the points). These instances have been debated so far stick to memory:

- Rosberg entering pits during safety car: Penalised, but only 10 laps later.
- Kimi driving around with his exhaust pipe flailing, then falling off at racing speed: no penalty
- Kimi running into the back of Sutil at Monaco: No penalty
- Lewis driving into Kimi in pit lane: 10 place penalty on grid next race
- Lewis cutting chicane at Spa: 25s penalty
- Lewis driving into Alonso (losing wing): No penalty
- Trulli driving the wrong way around the track to enter pits: Financial Penalty
- Lewis cutting chicane at France: drive through penalty
- Massa cutting chicane at Monza: no penalty
- Lewis pushing Webber wide at Monza: no penalty
- Lewis pushing Glock wide at Monza: no penalty
- Massa released in front of Sutil (1st time no penalty, 2nd got a penalty)
No wonder Sutil tried to avoid hitting the Ferrari as it came out of pits... if he didn't, he'd have been penalised for causing an avoidable incident!

How many incidents has DC been involved in this year? How many penalties has he received? Actually, all drivers involved in accidents throughout the season deserve penalties if we are to go by the FIA standards.

[AlabamaBoyz]

http://www.ogreview.org/fia/

Looking at it, McLaren have been "penalised" almost as much as the rest of the field put together.

Give it a rest... how many times must people say that given spygate last year, MacLeran has lost the benefit of the doubt in every case this year, and probably for the next couple years... the alternative would be exclusion from the championship for 2 to 3 years... but obviously the FIA just didn't want to rid of Ron that badly.

The biggest, I'll call it non-call would be Hamilton's 10 grid Montreal penalty, Based on the idiots rambling to the pit reporter "This isn't as bad as if I crashed out on the track..." Stupid idiot was proud of taking out his title rival at the time when he f'ed up... That should have been a 3 race sit down at least. Now he has the nerve to accuse his buddy Massa of trying to take him out intentionally...

I think Bourdais has received alot of unjust penalties this year, but that may be do to his original defence from the Heidfeld incident. instead of a comment like "I'll have to look at a tape before commenting" Bourdais did the "Well we where all trying to make a gap" which would be like someone telling a cop I was speeding cause I was late for work/gotta go pee. Now Bourdais has a FIA criminal record and that gave Massa the benefit of the doubt in Japan.

[posimoka]

Give it a rest... how many times must people say that given spygate last year, MacLeran has lost the benefit of the doubt in every case this year, and probably for the next couple years... the alternative would be exclusion from the championship for 2 to 3 years... but obviously the FIA just didn't want to rid of Ron that badly.

If that's the case then that's a disgraceful situation in so many ways.

Whatever you think of Spygate McLaren were penalised. They were found guilty and, in many eyes, an excessive $100m a penalty applied. Effectively what you're saying is it's ok for a vindictive FIA President, because he couldn't get the penalty he wanted, to penalise the team again and again and again, not because they've particularly done much wrong, but because he can abuse his powers, appoint his assistant to oversee the stewards, and 'fix' decisions.

I've said before that I'd guess the last thing Max wants is for McLaren to win either of the championships this year. Equally the last thing the sport needs is for an FIA President to be 'fixing' things to ensure they don't.

[TepSteade]

If that's the case then that's a disgraceful situation in so many ways.

Whatever you think of Spygate McLaren were penalised. They were found guilty and, in many eyes, an excessive $100m a penalty applied. Effectively what you're saying is it's ok for a vindictive FIA President, because he couldn't get the penalty he wanted, to penalise the team again and again and again, not because they've particularly done much wrong, but because he can abuse his powers, appoint his assistant to oversee the stewards, and 'fix' decisions.

I've said before that I'd guess the last thing Max wants is for McLaren to win either of the championships this year. Equally the last thing the sport needs is for an FIA President to be 'fixing' things to ensure they don't.

I agree, for my, Spygate is just further evidence that McLaren seem to be treated worse than any other teams.

If you look at precedent, and how spying is so common within F1, and their justification of the penalty, the $100m fine was a disgrace.

And to be honest PSOne, I think people will give it a rest once the Stewards stop dishing out random penalties helping Ferrari and continously disadvantaging McLaren.

I garantuee you now, if the Stewards didn't punish Hamilton for going wide at turn 1, which happens at most races, or Bourdais for defending his position, ultimately helping Massa.

We would not have continous stream of threads relating to the FIA and Stewards being biased.

Originally, I'd have to agree with F1Boat that the stewards are better placed than us. However, when they make what appears to be decisions based on helping Ferrari, and with no justification for it, I can't respect it.

[LypeReexy]

Funny that guys here think to be more competent than FIA stewards.

Given the amount of dubious and overzealous penalties this year, what makes you think its funny?

I thought Alonso's penalty in qualifying in Monza 2006 would've been the worst decision I have seen. But this year, I was proven wrong. Many times.
And I'm not a McLaren fan. I am a racing fan. The stewards decisions have been detrimental to racing.

[strongjannabiz]

I think Knockie is referring to incidents relating to this years championship (hence re-calculating the points). These instances have been debated so far stick to memory:

- Rosberg entering pits during safety car: Penalised, but only 10 laps later.
- Kimi driving around with his exhaust pipe flailing, then falling off at racing speed: no penalty
- Kimi running into the back of Sutil at Monaco: No penalty
- Lewis driving into Kimi in pit lane: 10 place penalty on grid next race
- Lewis cutting chicane at Spa: 25s penalty
- Lewis driving into Alonso (losing wing): No penalty
- Trulli driving the wrong way around the track to enter pits: Financial Penalty
- Lewis cutting chicane at France: drive through penalty
- Massa cutting chicane at Monza: no penalty
- Lewis pushing Webber wide at Monza: no penalty
- Lewis pushing Glock wide at Monza: no penalty
- Massa released in front of Sutil (1st time no penalty, 2nd got a penalty)
No wonder Sutil tried to avoid hitting the Ferrari as it came out of pits... if he didn't, he'd have been penalised for causing an avoidable incident!

How many incidents has DC been involved in this year? How many penalties has he received? Actually, all drivers involved in accidents throughout the season deserve penalties if we are to go by the FIA standards.

Thanks. That's a great start and exactly what I was thinking.

I didn't start this thread to debate whether the FIA are favoring a particular team over another but to have a look at what penalties have been applied (or not) and using FIA standards (as in recognised practice and not single instancing as they seem to have been recently) work out what the true situation is.

So, for people that think we are not qualified to be Stewards, I don't disagree as we are not vying to become Stewards. However, we are looking to see what the Stewards have done and what the situation would be if we were Stewards.

[Nekas48]

Funny that guys here think to be more competent than FIA stewards.

Well said!

Even funnier is that people who were calling for penalties on MS for no matter what are now saying that what Lewy is doing is OK!
Hypocrites!

[Nekas48]

I think Knockie is referring to incidents relating to this years championship (hence re-calculating the points). These instances have been debated so far stick to memory:

- Rosberg entering pits during safety car: Penalised, but only 10 laps later.
- Kimi driving around with his exhaust pipe flailing, then falling off at racing speed: no penalty
- Kimi running into the back of Sutil at Monaco: No penalty
- Lewis driving into Kimi in pit lane: 10 place penalty on grid next race
- Lewis cutting chicane at Spa: 25s penalty
- Lewis driving into Alonso (losing wing): No penalty
- Trulli driving the wrong way around the track to enter pits: Financial Penalty
- Lewis cutting chicane at France: drive through penalty
- Massa cutting chicane at Monza: no penalty
- Lewis pushing Webber wide at Monza: no penalty
- Lewis pushing Glock wide at Monza: no penalty
- Massa released in front of Sutil (1st time no penalty, 2nd got a penalty)
No wonder Sutil tried to avoid hitting the Ferrari as it came out of pits... if he didn't, he'd have been penalised for causing an avoidable incident!

How many incidents has DC been involved in this year? How many penalties has he received? Actually, all drivers involved in accidents throughout the season deserve penalties if we are to go by the FIA standards.

People should learn the rule book before making such "laughable lists.

[posimoka]

People should learn the rule book before making such "laughable lists.

Why is gravity's list "laughable" Did those incidents happen as described or not?