[wizardasa]

The rulebook is vague enough to allow you to make an interpretation, saying that only the track must be used.

If you take tennis as an analogy, the ball was in.

it is pretty clear to me Dave..It says "ONLY" while Felipe is also clearly using space outside of the track to gain his advantage !!

[Verger99]

it is pretty clear to me Dave..It says "ONLY" while Felipe is also clearly using space outside of the track to gain his advantage !!

But if you follow that logic then even putting one wheel over the white line should be outlawed. There has to be a clear and unambiguous limit, and as far as I know that is when all four wheels leave the track as defined by the outer edge of the white line.

I thought Massa had transgressed but I have no problem with admitting that I was wrong. He pushed the rules to their absolute limit, but that's what top drivers are supposed to do.

[NEWyear]

ok true..but does it say in the rulebook you have to be offtrack with all 4 ?

Yes it does. Go check it out now.

[NEWyear]

I don't think Webber did anything wrong in defending his position, not more so than what a certain German driver driving a red car attempted on many of his competitors, even some times his own brother.

Well, if Webber is branded a "killer" for that move, shouldn't Schumacher then be called a Mass Murderer?

You can brand MS whatever you wish, I won't give a rat's arse about.

[NEWyear]

But if you follow that logic then even putting one wheel over the white line should be outlawed. There has to be a clear and unambiguous limit, and as far as I know that is when all four wheels leave the track as defined by the outer edge of the white line.

I thought Massa had transgressed but I have no problem with admitting that I was wrong. He pushed the rules to their absolute limit, but that's what top drivers are supposed to do.

Fair post.

[NEWyear]

it is pretty clear to me Dave..It says "ONLY" while Felipe is also clearly using space outside of the track to gain his advantage !!

Let's punish every driver that dares to put a wheel outside of the track, they are all gaining some hidden advantage by doing that. I wonder if we would have any drivers without a penalty in any race.

[Retapleapse]

it is pretty clear to me Dave..It says "ONLY" while Felipe is also clearly using space outside of the track to gain his advantage !!

You seem to have a thing about red cars doing perfectly reasonable things. Just watch the race without your McLaren tinted spectacles on and enjoy it for what it is/was. You remind me of those people who watch Top Gear just to find some minute detail they're not happy with so they can complain about it to the BBC. If you don't want to see red cars doing what they do best and pushing the limits then don't watch F1 because the red cars have always tended to push the limits and for instance today Massa got penalised for it....

But if you follow that logic then even putting one wheel over the white line should be outlawed. There has to be a clear and unambiguous limit, and as far as I know that is when all four wheels leave the track as defined by the outer edge of the white line.

I thought Massa had transgressed but I have no problem with admitting that I was wrong. He pushed the rules to their absolute limit, but that's what top drivers are supposed to do.

I agree. I didn't think anyone did anything wrong in the situation. Webber was very hard and fair and Massa pushed it to the maximum to get past and it worked. Isn't this what we watch racing to see?

[niemamczasu]

I thought Massa had transgressed but I have no problem with admitting that I was wrong. He pushed the rules to their absolute limit, but that's what top drivers are supposed to do.

I agree, Massa broke no rule and therefore gets no punishment.

Whether the rule itself is correct is another matter, I doubt anyone can say that it isn't dangerous to cut across the exit of the pitlane in that manner. I don't see a practical way to alter the rules, however.

[Retapleapse]

It means that the "killer" in the blue car should stop pushing the other driver into the wall!

Come on Ioan. Webber didn't need to give him room and he clearly gave him enough room when you consider that Massa was able to make a legal pass on Webber. I thought that was a really good bit of racing and both drivers gave each other just enough room for it to be safe and exciting.

Using words like "killer" will make you no friends on this forum with anyone who could be considered to be a reasonable person

[NEWyear]

Come on Ioan. Webber didn't need to give him room and he clearly gave him enough room when you consider that Massa was able to make a legal pass on Webber. I thought that was a really good bit of racing and both drivers gave each other just enough room for it to be safe and exciting.

Using words like "killer" will make you no friends on this forum with anyone who could be considered to be a reasonable person

I wasn't trying to make friends at all, people called MS "criminal" and so on for such moves, so I used the same coin today.
I could have called Webbo a clown too, I bet those who were so happy about Bernies idiotic remarks would have been up in arms against me!

I'm never trying hard to make friends around here, if someone agrees with me ok, if not it's still fine by me. If I agree with someone again OK, if not I'll say it.
If it happens that someone thinks that there is a friendship like relationship between forum member than it's a wonderful thing.

[wizardasa]

You seem to have a thing about red cars doing perfectly reasonable things. Just watch the race without your McLaren tinted spectacles on and enjoy it for what it is/was. You remind me of those people who watch Top Gear just to find some minute detail they're not happy with so they can complain about it to the BBC. If you don't want to see red cars doing what they do best and pushing the limits then don't watch F1 because the red cars have always tended to push the limits and for instance today Massa got penalised for it....

I have no prob with that at all my dear Daniel...But I am just frustrated this season about the fact for some the stewards follow the rules by the letter and for others they don't...so again I have nothing at all against Ferrari as a team..My prob is with them stewards !

[Retapleapse]

I wasn't trying to make friends at all, people called MS "criminal" and so on for such moves, so I used the same coin today.
I could have called Webbo a clown too, I bet those who were so happy about Bernies idiotic remarks would have been up in arms against me!

I'm never trying hard to make friends around here, if someone agrees with me ok, if not it's still fine by me. If I agree with someone again OK, if not I'll say it.
If it happens that someone thinks that there is a friendship like relationship between forum member than it's a wonderful thing.

Come on dude. If others had jumped off a cliff would you do that?

[Retapleapse]

I have no prob with that at all my dear Daniel...But I am just frustrated this season about the fact for some the stewards follow the rules by the letter and for others they don't...so again I have nothing at all against Ferrari as a team..My prob is with them stewards !

What problem? Dave posted screencaps which show Massa did nothing wrong.

End of story.........

[wizardasa]

What problem? Dave posted screencaps which show Massa did nothing wrong.

End of story.........

yep...just like Lewis did nothing wrong if you compair it with the Bourdais action in Spa (first corner)

[NEWyear]

Come on dude. If others had jumped off a cliff would you do that?

Do what?
I'm still very proud of the neuron that attaches my to ears to my head!

[wizardasa]

What problem? Dave posted screencaps which show Massa did nothing wrong.

End of story.........

and it still can be seen as dangerous driving..imagining someone leaving the pit right at that moment ! and one can get a penalty for that too not ?

[Retapleapse]

yep...just like Lewis did nothing wrong if you compair it with the Bourdais action in Spa (first corner)

*sigh* I don't give a **** about what Lewis did. I have my opinion and I've stated it many times. This is not a thread about Lewis and I'm not going to discuss that decision because I've said what I've said......

What we're talking about here is what Massa did and Massa did NOTHING wrong.

Do what?
I'm still very proud of the neuron that attaches my to ears to my head!

Well then use it and don't say such silly things

[Verger99]

and it still can be seen as dangerous driving..imagining someone leaving the pit right at that moment ! and one can get a penalty for that too not ?

I agree, and the rules should be revisited. However, according to the rules as they stand today, Massa did nothing wrong.

[Retapleapse]

I agree, and the rules should be revisited. However, according to the rules as they stand today, Massa did nothing wrong.

[Mark Blundell]Wot 'e sed[/Mark Blundell]

[wizardasa]

I agree, and the rules should be revisited. However, according to the rules as they stand today, Massa did nothing wrong.

well so far this season they first punished a driver than revisited the rules ! ;-)