[bellson]

Has anyone ever seen a driver penalised for forcing another driver off the track in the 1st corner? This is another anti racing decsion by the FIA F1 stewards that not only affects F1 but eventually gets filtered down to lower catagories dumbing down the sport further.

The other is the Seb B penalty. How that was Seb's fault I have no idea.

Is it my imagination or have there been more stewards decisions this year than ever before?

[NEWyear]

There have been also more transgressions of the rules this season than ever before.

[Clielldub]

Despite being a Lewis Hamilton fan I can see why the stewards gave him a drive through penalty as his first corner move could have taken alot of cars out of the race.
The Bourdais decision is once again another farcical decision taken by the race stewards and surely heightens the call for stewards to be former race drivers. If anything I thought that Massa was at fault for this collision for clearly cutting in on Bourdais.

[niemamczasu]

The Bourdais decision is once again another farcical decision taken by the race stewards and surely heightens the call for stewards to be former race drivers.

I'm not sure that would help the situation, because then we'd just have "oh, X is clearly biased against Hamilton because he used to race for Ferrari" etc etc.

As I've already said, releasing onboard footage, and I guess also telemetry would make the decisions easier to agree or disagree with

[brorwargy]

Despite being a Lewis Hamilton fan I can see why the stewards gave him a drive through penalty as his first corner move could have taken alot of cars out of the race.
The Bourdais decision is once again another farcical decision taken by the race stewards and surely heightens the call for stewards to be former race drivers. If anything I thought that Massa was at fault for this collision for clearly cutting in on Bourdais.

Hamilton penalty may have been for dangerous driving at the first corner, I think thats justified for the penalty, With Bourdais 25 second penalty thats totally wrong it was massa fault and they never touch imo, its just another stupid decision by the stewards again, be better of if 3 dumb blondes would do a better job. I hope STR will appeal, but I doult it because of the ferrari engines they got.

[AM1VV9r6]

Berger has to contest this incredible penalty. totally wrong and makes a joke of the Championship.

[Verger99]

Recent history teaches us that drive-throughs (even applied after the race) cannot be appealed.

[posimoka]

There have been also more transgressions of the rules this season than ever before.

That's an interesting one. Have there? Or are the stewards penalising drivers more often than they did before?

[NEWyear]

With Bourdais 25 second penalty thats totally wrong it was massa fault and they never touch imo,

Watch this:

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=7dKvZE0iuU8

At 0:06 they touched. Bourdais' car front end hit Massa's car rear end. You can see how the STR twitched while the Ferrari started spinning.

Given the position of the cars at that moment Bourdais has been overtaken and should have yielded the position. He wasn't squeezed out of the track either, and at the moment they touched he was close to the middle of the track.

IMO the Frenchman carried to much speed into Turn 1 given that he had a car on his outside. His mistake and his penalty.

I tried to be as objective as possible given the material we have at our disposal.

[soonahonsefalh]

I do sorta side with the stewards about the Hamilton incident, it's just luck that he didn't wipe out half the field. I think that when Schumacher pulled similar moves in the past that those should have been punished too.

But while I'm not surprised, I am still pretty horrified by the Bourdais penalty. I'm not sure what he's supposed to have done wrong. It just seems like a random penalty being thrown out to a driver who dared be on the track at the same time as a Ferrari. It was Massa who caused the accident, and Massa who suffered, therefore no penalty is needed.

Also, as fun as it was to watch, Massa's move on Webber by driving over the no-drive strips in the pit lane looked very dangerous! Fortunately everyone had finished their pit stops by this point.

[niemamczasu]

Watch this:

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=7dKvZE0iuU8

At 0:06 they touched. Bourdais' car front end hit Massa's car rear end. You can see how the STR twitched while the Ferrari started spinning.

Given the position of the cars at that moment Bourdais has been overtaken and should have yielded the position. He wasn't squeezed out of the track either, and at the moment they touched he was close to the middle of the track.

IMO the Frenchman carried to much speed into Turn 1 given that he had a car on his outside. His mistake and his penalty.

I tried to be as objective as possible given the material we have at our disposal.

Good find but it's still pretty inconclusive.

An alternative reading of it is that Bourdais was holding as tight a line as he physically could do, and that Massa closed in a fraction too much and caught his front wheel. Surely Massa should have made more effort to hold a wider line, given that there was a car inside of him.

Also, Bourdais may not have been in the middle of the track, his car was dragged out wide by Massa's contact with him which is why he appears to be some distance from the inside kerb.

I guess we'll never know for certain though!

[posimoka]

IMO the Frenchman carried to much speed into Turn 1 given that he had a car on his outside. His mistake and his penalty.

Bourdais:
"For me it's very clear. Yes, I exit the pits, yes I'm supposed to be careful and I was. I stayed inside and I didn't push him out, I didn't overshoot the corner. I did everything I could not to run into him and he just squeezed and turned and behaved like I didn't exist, like I wasn't there. What am I supposed to do? http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71360

I think Bourdais could see Massa and tried to avoid contact. I think Massa assumed he was clear of Bourdais and turned across him. We've seen this kind of incident before this year, and the new higher cockpit sides have been given as a contributory factor.

[9Goarveboofe]

It looks like Massa has cut the front of Bordais off. Honestly where is Bordais supposed to go? Off Of the track? No wait, that would have also given him a penalty.

[VogsHoock]

The Bourdais penalty is just utterly non-sensical and is yet more evidence of the FIA's massive Ferrari bias. The FIA's manipulation of F1 digusts me these days, the only way F1 can really redeem it's self is to break away from the FIA, after all F1 doesnt need the FIA to legitimise it's self but the receprical is certainly true.

Massa was punished lightly for a move that was akin to Prost's move on Senna at Suzuka in '89 in similar circumstances, blatant in it's execution and to the benefit of the driver executing the move.

If Massa wins this years title it will be a meaningless championship gifted by numerous assists from the FIA and will set the sport back years in terms of popularity and credibility.

[NEWyear]

Good find but it's still pretty inconclusive.

An alternative reading of it is that Bourdais was holding as tight a line as he physically could do, and that Massa closed in a fraction too much and caught his front wheel. Surely Massa should have made more effort to hold a wider line, given that there was a car inside of him.

Also, Bourdais may not have been in the middle of the track, his car was dragged out wide by Massa's contact with him which is why he appears to be some distance from the inside kerb.

I guess we'll never know for certain though!

Bourdais was not anymore on the kerb when the contact occurred. If the contact would have been so strong that the Ferrari would have dragged the STR on the middle of the track than the STR would have lost it's front suspension, no question about it. In fact the wheels didn't touch wheels but rather bodywork.

I thought about why Bourdais had that trajectory instead of staying parallel to the Ferrari and I came to the conclusion that it has to do with him being overoptimistic with a heavy car on cold tires.

Honestly I suppose his car wasn't yet stable enough and as a result he drifted into the Ferrari.

This could have been classed as a racing incident based on the info I have, but the stewards had more than this at disposal.

As for those saying it was Massa's fault, I understand their frustration.

[jhfsdhf]

Massa was punished lightly for a move that was akin to Prost's move on Senna at Suzuka in '89 in similar circumstances, blatant in it's execution and to the benefit of the driver executing the move.
.

I can't agree. Massa was pushing hard. I don't think it was blatant, he hit Hamilton and could've ruined his own race in the process. His race ended in the tail end of the points, hardly a great idea if planned.

[NEWyear]

Bourdais:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71360

I think Bourdais could see Massa and tried to avoid contact. I think Massa assumed he was clear of Bourdais and turned across him. We've seen this kind of incident before this year, and the new higher cockpit sides have been given as a contributory factor.

If you watch the video you will see that the fastest line out of the corner wasn't to the right but to the left, so why would have Massa went into the wrong direction given that he already was ahead and on the race line?

[posimoka]

I thought about why Bourdais had that trajectory instead of staying parallel to the Ferrari and I came to the conclusion that it has to do with him being overoptimistic with a heavy car on cold tires.

Honestly I suppose his car wasn't yet stable enough and as a result he drifted into the Ferrari.

I think that's a reasonable possible explanation, except he didn't appear to drift into the Ferrari.

If you watch the video you will see that the fastest line out of the corner wasn't to the right but to the left, so why would have Massa went into the wrong direction given that he already was ahead and on the race line?

But Massa wasn't ahead, or at least clearly ahead enough to take the line he took. There was room on the outside that Felipe could have used. I don't think Bourdais had any more room to use on the inside.

But, the stewards clearly had a different view.

[NEWyear]

But Massa wasn't ahead, or at least clearly ahead enough to take the line he took. There was room on the outside that Felipe could have used. I don't think Bourdais had any more room to use on the inside.

They were at least even and given that Bourdais took the inside line, what line was supposed Massa to take?
And he left enough room or Bourdais, enough to not push him out of the track, that's why I don't understand why when Bourdais had half the track at his disposal he ran into the Ferrari.

[Retapleapse]

They were at least even and given that Bourdais took the inside line, what line was supposed Massa to take?

The line that Bourdais wasn't on perhaps?