[Reftsheette]

Go back to lower front wing. Ex-designer Gary Anderson is one person amongst many who support this because a lower wing is supposedly less susceptible to the turbulent wake.

This is one I've been wondering about. A lower front wing can take advantage of ground effect. It would be super pitch sensitive, so maybe that's the problem.

[Dynasty]

A movable front wing is a recipe for an unintentional oversteer event isn't it?


The teams already know how to slow cars down as they do it a couple of times every race - add weight.

In my opinion F1 needs to bring in a handicapping system based on WDC points. The system would be cheap and safe and predictable and encourage continual performance improvements throughout the season. I realise that it is viewed as "penalising success" but if it means that the racing is less reliant on random factors such as safety cars then it can only be a good thing.

I would start at 2kg per WDC point and tweak the system from there.

[mikefertynnz]

A movable front wing is a recipe for an unintentional oversteer event isn't it?


The teams already know how to slow cars down as they do it a couple of times every race - add weight.

In my opinion F1 needs to bring in a handicapping system based on WDC points. The system would be cheap and safe and predictable and encourage continual performance improvements throughout the season. I realise that it is viewed as "penalising success" but if it means that the racing is less reliant on random factors such as safety cars then it can only be a good thing.

I would start at 2kg per WDC point and tweak the system from there.

Increased weight is increased dander in a crash. Bad idea

I also hate the idea about handicapping although some would argue that the FIA have been piloting it already

[kucheravka]

A movable front wing is a recipe for an unintentional oversteer event isn't it?

Adjustable twice per lap so if you're stuck behind a car, in the turbulent wake, then you can minimise some of the understeer to try to make a pass.

[cholleyhomeob]

Too much nonsense about overtaking.

[LypeReexy]

Too much nonsense about overtaking.

Why is it nonsense?

[Kolokireo]

A movable front wing is a recipe for an unintentional oversteer event isn't it?


The teams already know how to slow cars down as they do it a couple of times every race - add weight.

In my opinion F1 needs to bring in a handicapping system based on WDC points. The system would be cheap and safe and predictable and encourage continual performance improvements throughout the season. I realise that it is viewed as "penalising success" but if it means that the racing is less reliant on random factors such as safety cars then it can only be a good thing.

I would start at 2kg per WDC point and tweak the system from there.

I would no longer follow the sport.

[Kolokireo]

Too much nonsense about overtaking.

Agreed.

[Retapleapse]

A movable front wing is a recipe for an unintentional oversteer event isn't it?


The teams already know how to slow cars down as they do it a couple of times every race - add weight.

In my opinion F1 needs to bring in a handicapping system based on WDC points. The system would be cheap and safe and predictable and encourage continual performance improvements throughout the season. I realise that it is viewed as "penalising success" but if it means that the racing is less reliant on random factors such as safety cars then it can only be a good thing.

I would start at 2kg per WDC point and tweak the system from there.

No thanks.

[LypeReexy]

A movable front wing is a recipe for an unintentional oversteer event isn't it?


The teams already know how to slow cars down as they do it a couple of times every race - add weight.

In my opinion F1 needs to bring in a handicapping system based on WDC points. The system would be cheap and safe and predictable and encourage continual performance improvements throughout the season. I realise that it is viewed as "penalising success" but if it means that the racing is less reliant on random factors such as safety cars then it can only be a good thing.

I would start at 2kg per WDC point and tweak the system from there.

Or you could fix the safety car rules instead of introducing another stupid gimmick.

[Dynasty]

Or you could fix the safety car rules instead of introducing another stupid gimmick.

Always remember that the biggest race in Australia is a handicap event and no-one would have it any other way...


I don't see why folks are so against weight being used as a way to even up the teams in F1.

Coming into the final 3 races of the season, at 2kg per WDC point, Hamilton would only be carrying 14 kgs more than Massa but 162 kgs more than Button. I believe that the Honda would be competitive under those conditions. Over a whole season of progressive increases would likely never see Honda get that large a difference and that is the point of results based handicaps - if they're done right they handicap rather than cripple.

Weight handicapping has to be far better than a major manufacturer being convincingly beaten week in week out. These are the best drivers in the world, in the best cars in the world, but the majority of the grid are unable to showcase their skills because of minimal differences in car performance.

[LypeReexy]

Always remember that the biggest race in Australia is a handicap event and no-one would have it any other way...

Doesn't mean F1 has to stoop to that level.

These are the best drivers in the world, in the best cars in the world, but the majority of the grid are unable to showcase their skills because of minimal differences in car performance.

That's how grand prix racing has always been, and always should be. If the backmarker teams don't like it, they hound sponsors for more money and design a better car.

Handicapping is a gimmick. It's a stupid way to artificially level out the competition for those who don't deserve it.
When you rely on measures like that you don't end up with a sport, you end up with a joke.

[Retapleapse]

I don't see why folks are so against weight being used as a way to even up the teams in F1.

We've got GP2 and A1GP for level playing fields.
F1 isn't about artificially level performances.

[mikefertynnz]

Always remember that the biggest race in Australia is a handicap event and no-one would have it any other way...


I don't see why folks are so against weight being used as a way to even up the teams in F1.

Coming into the final 3 races of the season, at 2kg per WDC point, Hamilton would only be carrying 14 kgs more than Massa but 162 kgs more than Button. I believe that the Honda would be competitive under those conditions. Over a whole season of progressive increases would likely never see Honda get that large a difference and that is the point of results based handicaps - if they're done right they handicap rather than cripple.

Weight handicapping has to be far better than a major manufacturer being convincingly beaten week in week out. These are the best drivers in the world, in the best cars in the world, but the majority of the grid are unable to showcase their skills because of minimal differences in car performance.

I think we can take this further.

How about this

[Dynasty]

If the backmarker teams don't like it, they hound sponsors for more money and design a better car.

...or take the cheaper alternative and simply close up shop.

In the current economic climate "backmarker" teams may have difficulty finding funds when podium time is so unlikely and, in a competition that practices "freezing", I can't see too many "better" car's being designed.

Handicapping is a gimmick. And freezing engine development in a competitive MOTOR sport isn't a gimmick? Some would argue that grooved tyres were a gimmick as they became F1'centric or even that two race engines and KERS are gimmicks?

Anyway, whats one more "gimmick" if it gives a major sponsor a couple of tenths of a second that keeps them happy and in the competition.


It's a stupid way to artificially level out the competition for those who don't deserve it. Its not stupid at all.

Honda/Toyota/BMW etc. have earned their stripes in F1 and don't "deserve" to be off the podium week after week. You appear to have a view that half a ton will be dropped on McLaren and Ferrari after the first race and that is simply incorrect.

You would have to agree, on current results, that neither Honda, Toyota or BMW will win any of the remaining 3 races. With a correctly implemented and fair handicapping system in place then, by this stage of the season, teams should be far closer and the competition more open so that the last 3 races would have more victory possibilities. It doesn't mean that they WILL win but it does mean that they COULD win.

You need to be thinking along the lines of "Would handicapping make the racing more entertaining or improve overtaking?". I believe the answer is a definite "possibly".

When you rely on measures like that you don't end up with a sport, you end up with a joke. I disagree and believe that no-one will care after the first few races, especially the drivers, as the cream will always rise to the top.

[Dyerryjex]

Honda/Toyota/BMW etc. have earned their stripes in F1 and don't "deserve" to be off the podium week after week. You appear to have a view that half a ton will be dropped on McLaren and Ferrari after the first race and that is simply incorrect.

You would have to agree, on current results, that neither Honda, Toyota or BMW will win any of the remaining 3 races. With a correctly implemented and fair handicapping system in place then, by this stage of the season, teams should be far closer and the competition more open so that the last 3 races would have more victory possibilities. It doesn't mean that they WILL win but it does mean that they COULD win.

Me as a Toyota supporter don't prefer to see them winning, when the performance of top teams is hindered or they are dropped to the back with a safety car. Such win would create no satisfaction, because the knowledge "They may have got a lucky win, but this doesn't change the fact they still suck" persists. A win on pure merit is what creates joy and happiness. Safety cars, weight penalties, reverse grids or whatever simply devalue the worth of a win.

WTCC is a good example, how unfair can the weight penalties be. In recent years I remember championship leader starting from somewhere P15 for multiple races in a row, because his car was so heavy he couldn't do anything. And guy, who was leading (!) the championship before the last race weekend, was basically screwed, because he was the heaviest of all and couldn't score any points. So can you believe - if you want to win the title, do your best not to lead the championship before the last race. How strange can racing become?

[LypeReexy]

...or take the cheaper alternative and simply close up shop.

That's why, in theory, cost cutting measures are being implemented.

In the current economic climate "backmarker" teams may have difficulty finding funds when podium time is so unlikely and, in a competition that practices "freezing", I can't see too many "better" car's being designed.



And freezing engine development in a competitive MOTOR sport isn't a gimmick? Some would argue that grooved tyres were a gimmick as they became F1'centric or even that two race engines and KERS are gimmicks? Freezing engine development would have to be one of the worst decisions ever implemented by the FIA. I don't see how grooved tyres are a gimmick, as they're just tyres. I don't like the idea of KERS being like Push to Pass, but the FIA needs to make F1 slightly more environmentally friendly. [/QUOTE]

Anyway, whats one more "gimmick" if it gives a major sponsor a couple of tenths of a second that keeps them happy and in the competition. It's another step which further removes F1 from its roots as a sport, and further towards a 'show'.




Its not stupid at all.

Honda/Toyota/BMW etc. have earned their stripes in F1 and don't "deserve" to be off the podium week after week. It is stupid. You have to constantly earn your stripes - it's F1. Yesterday's results and former glories mean nothing when you are mediocre in the present. You would deserve podiums by being the best in the present.

It's up to the teams, drivers, everyone, to constantly improve.

You appear to have a view that half a ton will be dropped on McLaren and Ferrari after the first race and that is simply incorrect. Well it is not. I don't care what the degree of handicapping is, I don't agree with the principle of handicapping the best teams because someone thinks that some strange reason, lesser teams deserve to be constantly fighting for wins.

You would have to agree, on current results, that neither Honda, Toyota or BMW will win any of the remaining 3 races. With a correctly implemented and fair handicapping system in place then, by this stage of the season, teams should be far closer and the competition more open so that the last 3 races would have more victory possibilities. It doesn't mean that they WILL win but it does mean that they COULD win.

You need to be thinking along the lines of "Would handicapping make the racing more entertaining or improve overtaking?". I believe the answer is a definite "possibly". It wouldn't improve the racing in my opinion, because it'd just make it more of a joke. It'd be like NASCAR in the way that they try to manufacture entertainment by having a caution flag ten laps from the end. Not only does it devalue the achievements of the teams and drivers in the race up until that point, it makes a mockery of real close finishes. The finishes where the lesser teams aren't handicapped.



I disagree and believe that no-one will care after the first few races, especially the drivers, as the cream will always rise to the top.


Maybe your average fans won't care. But the true fans who care about F1 as a sport will care.