[derisgun]

Yes they did, even if the package included special tires, it was the best package.

You don't reckon Fernando had anything to do with it, do you?

[9wQlZkIj]

You don't reckon Fernando had anything to do with it, do you?

Not too much, as is evidenced by his time at McLaren, when he was bested by an average rookie!

[Diondra]

Not too much, as is evidenced by his time at McLaren, when he was bested by an average rookie!

Lewis has a lot of natural talent, his problem is in harnessing it.

[911_993_911]

The Renault was well adapted to the Michelins, end of story.

The Renault suspension was designed in very close collaboration with Michelin whom were also making the tires.
Question is, did Michelin make a suspension to suit the tires or did they rather make a tire suit the suspension.

Anyway you look at it the Renault-Michelin cooperation was well beyond anything that was between Ferrari and Bridgestone.

[Diondra]

The Renault suspension was designed in very close collaboration with Michelin whom were also making the tires.
Question is, did Michelin make a suspension to suit the tires or did they rather make a tire suit the suspension.

In other words, the Renault was well adapted to the Michelins.

Anyway you look at it the Renault-Michelin cooperation was well beyond anything that was between Ferrari and Bridgestone. It was not cheating.

[9wQlZkIj]

In other words, the Renault was well adapted to the Michelins.



It was not cheating.

Yes it was, Michelin were caught red handed, they knew it and even had another tire ready to run "just in case"
It is a question of two French companies, cheating together!

[Diondra]

Yes it was, Michelin were caught red handed, they knew it and even had another tire ready to run "just in case"
It is a question of two French companies, cheating together!

Sources please.

And the Renault F1 operation is based in England.

[derisgun]

Not too much, as is evidenced by his time at McLaren, when he was bested by an average rookie!

..........yeah, plus Ron Dennis as well. You can't have it both ways; either you say Hamilton is lousy or he is as good as a two times WDC.

[911_993_911]

Sources please.

And the Renault F1 operation is based in England.

Just a part of the Renault F1 operation is based in England, and Renault is still a French company.

In other words, the Renault was well adapted to the Michelins.

In other words Michelin was building Renaults tires and suspensions. Tell me how fair that is towards the other teams.

People always criticized the Ferrari - Bridgestone relationship, where BS was seen to make tires adapted for Ferrari (mind you they were the only top team using their tires, so it was common sense), still everyone ignored that the whole Renault suspension and tires were designed by Michelin.

[Diondra]

Just a part of the Renault F1 operation is based in England, and Renault is still a French company.

Correct



In other words Michelin was building Renaults tires and suspensions. Tell me how fair that is towards the other teams. I didn't make a judgement on fairness, I just said it was not cheating.

[FetMiddle]

As I see - this thread is full of Cheat, cheat and cheat.

I think in this debate you are messing this word with something else. Cheating as such should be an indication of rules being broken, however I doubt a tyre manufacturer's cooperation with a Formula One team is something the rules do forbid.

About WRC rumours. Considering that Citroen may leave after 2009, then I really don't see much reason to join WRC. Renault's current fate in F1 reminds awful lot of their fate during their first attempt as an independent team in F1, when they in the beginning gradually became better and ultimately turned into a top team, but then suddenly dropped more or less to the midfield in one season and never recovered, leaving F1 as a result. Maybe we'll see the same scenario in this century too.

[9wQlZkIj]

The tire that Michelin had that year, was a cheater!

[FetMiddle]

The tire that Michelin had that year, was a cheater!

By "that year" you mean 2003? All right. But what about other seasons?

Oh and in 2003 Renault got beaten by two Michelin-teams, so they weren't the biggest gainers.

[9wQlZkIj]

By "that year" you mean 2003? All right. But what about other seasons?

Oh and in 2003 Renault got beaten by two Michelin-teams, so they weren't the biggest gainers.

June 2005

[KuRoregioNka]

The tire that Michelin had that year, was a cheater!

How would you explain Fisichella's performance, then, given that you claim he too had these super-cheaty tyres? Or did Michelin somehow manage to only fit them to Alonso's Renault?

In short, please either back up your far-fetched accusations or accept that Alonso / Renault won fair and square.

[9wQlZkIj]

How would you explain Fisichella's performance, then, given that you claim he too had these super-cheaty tyres? Or did Michelin somehow manage to only fit them to Alonso's Renault?

In short, please either back up your far-fetched accusations or accept that Alonso / Renault won fair and square.

Fishi is a dud at best!

[derisgun]

[911_993_911]

Correct

I didn't make a judgement on fairness, I just said it was not cheating.

I know, however I didn't say they were cheating either!

[9wQlZkIj]

I did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Diondra]

I did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And everyone is still waiting for you to support that claim with some evidence.

Saying they cheated because they did is not supporting your claims with evidence.