[pIp83Uns]

I've just finished watching Nick Heidfeld and Fernando Alonso play dodgems on the final qualifying lap. Allen and Brundle are suggesting some sort of minimum speed that drivers who elect to save fuel must keep in order to avoid any unsafe speed differentials, which is a very 21st century F1 way of overcomplicating things IMO.

Isn't it time to ditch this whole idea of qualifying with your race fuel and getting qualifying back to the essence of how it used to be - a hot lap on minimal fuel?

Yes, in 2003 it seemed like a fairly innovative idea to shake up the grids and add an extra strategic dimension to the race weekend, but these days everyone seems to run fairly similar strategies and they rarely add to the excitement in the race - so why not just ditch the whole idea?

Anyone else agree?

[scemHeish]

The 3 periods of qualifying are good, but its time to ditch the fuel load bull****. People want to see the cars at their very fastest in qualifying, not teams playing a strategy game.

[jojocomok]

I agree.

How about giving each team a few laps to complete a time? The IRL has a pretty good system that makes their qualifying exciting to watch.

http://www.indycar.com/tech/101/qualifying.php

[fotodemujerahldesnugdo]

I've just finished watching Nick Heidfeld and Fernando Alonso play dodgems on the final qualifying lap. Allen and Brundle are suggesting some sort of minimum speed that drivers who elect to save fuel must keep in order to avoid any unsafe speed differentials, which is a very 21st century F1 way of overcomplicating things IMO.

Isn't it time to ditch this whole idea of qualifying with your race fuel and getting qualifying back to the essence of how it used to be - a hot lap on minimal fuel?

Yes, in 2003 it seemed like a fairly innovative idea to shake up the grids and add an extra strategic dimension to the race weekend, but these days everyone seems to run fairly similar strategies and they rarely add to the excitement in the race - so why not just ditch the whole idea?

Anyone else agree?

I'm all for it. I would be very happy if it went back to low fuel runs for everyone.

Then you can fill up as much fuel as you want for the race..

It will still sort the faster cars out from the rest anyway.

[shumozar]

The only problem I really have with the current quali is the way these guiys limp in on their in laps. very dangerous today. They need to get way off line.
They cost Fred some time on his final flyer!

[dalnecymync]

I've been advocating this for like forever. What more can I say?

[VQdeochratis]

Isn't it time to ditch this whole idea of qualifying with your race fuel and getting qualifying back to the essence of how it used to be - a hot lap on minimal fuel?

No - but only because it was actually time to do it some time ago. Has the spectacle really been enhanced in any way by carrying race fuel through qualifying ever?

[8jIDXQ80]

It has to go. As I said in the thread about qualifying following the Australian GP, any system that requires the amount of explanation required to describe the system used at present is too complicated.

[TaliaJack]

I agree 100%, get rid of this stupid fuel rule. Start the race with the fuel load that you want IMO. Lets get Qualifying rocking.

[_tppga_]

if we go back to the old system people will complain that it's boring, since the cars only go out for a little bit and there's the big gap at the start.

What's to guarantee that letting them refuel before the race will improve the race, though? As far as I can see, that would just encourage everyone to lap on the soft tyre until the pitlane opened (not sure how long that takes in F1), at which point they would pit, put on hard tyres, fill the car to the brim and go to the end of the race on that. Certainly, the first season in A1GP showed that that was quicker than refueling in the middle of the race.

It might encourage passing on the track, but it also eliminates the only source of overtaking possible on tracks like Monaco and Hungary, and let's face it, the rest of the tracks are usually processional as well (and it's not like drivers wouldn't pass if given the chance).

[PNCarl]

if we go back to the old system people will complain that it's boring, since the cars only go out for a little bit and there's the big gap at the start.

In essence isn't it all the same? only the last 2 minutes of qualifying matters. Only a accident/big screw up/car failure from the topdrivers can prevent them from competing in the 3nd round of qualifying. I woke up this morning only to watch the last 10 minutes.

[daguy]

The original hope for some with these qualifying regs was that some mid-packers might be able to grab a front row and\or maybe incorporate some fiendishly diabolical fuel strategy that would win the day for them but it just doesn't happen.

It's the usual suspects at the front and they'd be there regardless of the fuel regulations.

I've never seen teams give up a final lap of qualy as they did today! Is this the new way? Giving up final qualifying laps to accomodate fuel strategy? These rules, which were intended to entertain, have truly backfired when teams start doing that!

And never mind the potential for disaster when you have some F1 cars puttering along the circuit at school zone speeds when qualifying is yet to finish.

[Marinausa]

They should make the last session a low fuel, ten minutes of frantic action. Having the cars on race fuel makes little sense to me and certainly adds nothing to the spectacle.

[FUNALA]

given that its only 10 minutes and nmost drivers want to have a couple of runs we'd lose nothing of the spectacle by dropping the race fuel, and certainly lose the dangerous lottery that the last lap was. i don't understand, however, why only McLaren were punished for the blocking, when there was clearly a concentration of cars in one area of track and i'd argue all were distracting, blocking and/or dangerous

[abubycera]

The original hope for some with these qualifying regs was that some mid-packers might be able to grab a front row and\or maybe incorporate some fiendishly diabolical fuel strategy that would win the day for them but it just doesn't happen.

That used to be the case, but it just doesn't work because it compromises your race slightly. Renault tried it in 2003/04, BAR Honda did it in 2005 and were caught with their pants down and went backwards in the race.

With the old system the fastest cars were at the front and then fuelled their cars to the brim and not necessarily a recipe for a good race when everyone was on a similar strategy. Arguably that system could work now because there's more emphasis on driver skill.

Personally I'm happy as it is. There's unknown variables and therefore a less predictable race - did a driver carry more fuel of did he genuinely make a mistake?

I'm not too fussed over qualy - as long as I watch a good race. I follow NASCAR, IRL, BTCC, ALMS and many other series and there isn't a huge fuss over qualifying.

I'm not sure what the ideal solution would be. Refuelling has increased the need for pit passing, but if it we ban it then it would be like the late 80s/early 90s when cars coasted to the finish.

Perhaps 1hr 45min races? Regulation fuel tank capacity?

[XGoFivk7]

The fuel rule is nonsense. I also think that the sessions should be either equal time, or Q1 should be the shortest, followed by Q2 longer, and Q3 longest.

That way, there may be a few more surprise OUTS by some of the midfield runners, instead of the same backmarker guys always getting the squeeze a few seconds from the end.

Then, when it comes time for the top guys to battle for the pole, I'd like to see more than just 10 minutes of it - after all, that's the most interesting part, so why make it the shortest?

[8jIDXQ80]

That used to be the case, but it just doesn't work because it compromises your race slightly. Renault tried it in 2003/04, BAR Honda did it in 2005 and were caught with their pants down and went backwards in the race.

And that only worked for them because Renault and BAR Honda were, then, closer to the pace of Ferrari and McLaren than the chasing pack (with the possible exception of BMW) are at the moment. The gap has increased and there's now little scope for the grid order to be shaken up all that much.

Personally I'm happy as it is. There's unknown variables and therefore a less predictable race - did a driver carry more fuel of did he genuinely make a mistake?

I know there are lots of different views on this matter, but the current system and its implications are just so hard to explain to the casual viewer (and even a fair few enthusiasts).

[leijggeds]

yep, scrap the fuel rule
1.it does nothing but cause problems in Q3
2. it gives the rest of the grid (11-22) an unfair advantage over the top 10 who earned those postions and could simply lose it on pit strategy because of the fuel rule. The simplest safety car incident throws the whole system off for a whole host of reasons. Simply put the biggest winners of the Q3 fuel load system are cars 11-17 IMO
3. Adds no drama to the quali session. I would like to see the fastest laps turned in Q3 not Q2 with real duels of speed on the track rather than aggregated plotting and scheming due to the fuel load situation

[daguy]

With the old system the fastest cars were at the front and then fuelled their cars to the brim and not necessarily a recipe for a good race when everyone was on a similar strategy. Arguably that system could work now because there's more emphasis on driver skill.

The big issue with F1 qualifying started a few years back when the only team that appeared on the track for the first forty minutes was Minardi and then there was a mad scramble by the entire grid in the last ten minutes.

I think the segmented way they do it now defeats that problem so there is no reason to have fuel strategy involved in qualifying especially with the final segment. These gents all use computers that are equally smart so they pretty much have all the same options. There is still fuel strategy for the race.

Having said that, since F1 has become more fan oriented entertainment wise and introduced silly, NASCAR like rules of weeding all the lap cars out of the way after a caution then why not offer a point for the pole position if you want see some gambling with fuel strategy?

[abubycera]

And that only worked for them because Renault and BAR Honda were, then, closer to the pace of Ferrari and McLaren than the chasing pack (with the possible exception of BMW) are at the moment. The gap has increased and there's now little scope for the grid order to be shaken up all that much.

Over time we now have a pattern. Everyone has realised that Saturday headlines rewards little for the race, when its best to do a final short stint. Another example is that when race fuel qualy was introduced drivers were willing to have enough fuel for about 15 lap first stint (over a 60 lap race), whereas now they can easily do 20 lap first stint.