McLaren loses it again - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**GaryBulguihb** · 10-22-2007, 06:18 AM

Something that maybe got lost in all the turbulence surrounding the last race, is that McLaren has again failed to win a WDC. So now it's the 8th consecutive season with no titles, and they have won only two titles in the last 14 seasons. Not particularly exciting for a top team

**Elelaytet** · 10-22-2007, 06:23 AM

A very good point. It will be interesting to see how their development goes, considering their heavy fine, for next season, too. But you'd have to wonder if their so-called equality policy really works, considering its low result.

**yahyynzer** · 10-22-2007, 07:58 AM

A very good point. It will be interesting to see how their development goes, considering their heavy fine, for next season, too. But you'd have to wonder if their so-called equality policy really works, considering its low result.

Don't forget that their 2008 car still have to be inspected by the FIA following the Spygate!!

**Goalseexere** · 10-22-2007, 09:21 AM

talking about the McLAren cars. Today, strangely enough LH car had major problems and FA was not able at all to keep up with the two Ferraris. What do you think happened? I thought that on the last race teams would come out with their best cars. Today just the opposite. Your thoughts?

**UriDepkeeks** · 10-22-2007, 09:34 AM

Lewis' car was probably tuned up to use all the two-race things for a single week (is that just the engine, or is it the gearbox too? Was it simply proposed for gearbox but not yet implemented?) and so the car as a whole was treated differently to usual. Meanwhile, Alonso's car was on it's second race enginewise, so he wouldn't have been able to push as hard and thus match the Ferrari's. But I think the Ferrari's were just so much better that it wouldn't have mattered anyway.

**Infellgedq** · 10-22-2007, 10:29 AM

Seems things have gotten so competitve that minute differences look gigantic

Watch only today's race and you would have to say that Ferrari dominates mac...but look at other races, and you would have to say Mac dominates ferrari......seems to be very track dependant

On the other hand, clearly Mac's "equality" policy cost them....say what you will, if they had gone with experience instead of potential and "equality", then they would have a wdc right now...probably two races ago

Instead Freddie found himself semi-number two/one---and LH made a big stink at the Monaco and got his way...then we had the pit stop, and another big stink by LH which began when he disobeyed his orders like a spoiled brat, and poppa mouthed off.....Put the pole back to FA and he wins or finishes second

Then today, the story is Mac has a WDC....instead, Freddie gets mad and does his balckmail number...maxie gets the call, and 100 million dollars later.....

Blame Freddie all you want, but it was the actions of LH that started the brouhahaha, first at Monaco and then later about the paddle...leave that out of the picture and Mac has a wdc AND MAYBE the WCC, plus maybe an extra 100 million in its pockets

**Goalseexere** · 10-22-2007, 11:14 AM

Seems things have gotten so competitve that minute differences look gigantic

Watch only today's race and you would have to say that Ferrari dominates mac...but look at other races, and you would have to say Mac dominates ferrari......seems to be very track dependant

I agree with your view about the performance of the two cars depending on the track they are racing on. It looks like though, over all, there are more tracks "friendly" to the red cars thatn to the silver ones. Are we going to see another "long" Ferrari next year, although I doubt it?

**pfcwlkxav** · 10-22-2007, 01:46 PM

I think McLaren have been extremely successful this year. It appears to me that they have met all their team goals for the 2007 season. For just about all of 2007 the entire team, collectively, seems to have gone out of their way and done everything they could to shoot themselves in the feet in order to avoid winning any of the championships. Between their documents, other peoples documents, emails, bad strategy calls, driver spats, blackmail threats, tire difficulties, etc., they have done their utmost to avoid the stigma of being called "World Champion".

Although others tried to force the championship upon them, McLaren never gave up the good fight, never lost faith that they could avoid the championship even though it meant going down to the very last race to blow the whole thing. In the end, they got what they worked so hard for and my hats off to them.

**veizKinquiz** · 10-22-2007, 03:29 PM

In my opinion reliability trouble at the very wrong time cost them the title again, as it has done in the past SO many times. Remember, Mika in Indianapolis at 2000, the 2001 season, Kimi in 2003 and 2005? During those years, Mclaren had mechanical failures throughout the season.

However this year, the MP4-22 was bulletproof all season, but screwed up just at the most crucial moment. Of course, I'm not saying it's the car alone. Hamilton cocked it up for himself too, he is not the innocent party here either. All he had to do was be a bit cautious at the pit entrance in Shanghai and be cooler in the first lap at Brazil, and we would have the proverbial superboy rookie champion giving interviews on how he dreamt of this day, in all of the world tabloids by now.

Well, in the end, the coolness and monster pace of the Iceman prevailed more than anything else.

**markshome23** · 10-22-2007, 04:03 PM

I think Lewis lost the championship and caused the mechanical issues, not the other way around. All he had to do when Alonso got past him was keep cool and stick to him like glue.

Instead, he made a disastrous attempt to get the place back, ran wide and then I think, went postal on the car

Maclaren were obviously missing that part out, but it's what ultimately cost him the championship, trying to beat Alonso.

**we0MA4MI** · 10-22-2007, 05:30 PM

As a McLaren fan, I think they deservedly lost this one. Hopefully they're still up there next year for an untainted title win.

**Infellgedq** · 10-22-2007, 05:40 PM

I think Lewis lost the championship and caused the mechanical issues, not the other way around. All he had to do when Alonso got past him was keep cool and stick to him like glue.

Instead, he made a disastrous attempt to get the place back, ran wide and then I think, went postal on the car

Maclaren were obviously missing that part out, but it's what ultimately cost him the championship, trying to beat Alonso.

my point as well...thos were fast laps at the end from LH until his tires went away most likely...I think the "slowdown" was likely due to his getting the car completely into the wrong gear and then trying not to stall, then shifting around until he figured out what he needed to get going....hardly the fault of the car...

**CtEkM8Vq** · 10-22-2007, 06:32 PM

This year is over, and has been over for a while now. There's not much money in the drivers' championship anyway.

It was overall, a positive year for McLaren fans. We found out that our protege is one of the best in the game, we found that Mercedes can make reliable engines if they are rev limited, and we found out that the team is still the same team we enjoyed watching Senna and Prost battle in.

Yes, we lost the WDC, but most McLaren fans still have a soft spot somewhere for kimi, even if he now wearing the devil's suite ;-)

It was a very good year...

**XiWm9O9S** · 10-22-2007, 06:38 PM

I'm left with the impression that Mclaren lost the championship instead of Ferrari winning, not that I think Ferrari or Raikkonnen don't deserve it.

Probably their team work and policy is wrong, they seemed unbeatable some months ago and now they have nothing.

**PheliarearY** · 10-22-2007, 06:58 PM

I think that if McLaren are not WDC is just because of Lewis. He only needed four points in the last two races... and he alone screwed it up. Apart form that I think that McLaren got what they deserve: nothing!

It was funny too to see the equality police that Ferrari and Mclaren have used over the seasson. McLaren have been gambilng with these the whola seasson, when Ferrari only needed to move out one of their cars at the last race. Mclaren should learn a lot from Ferrari about this, and not only try to get their secrets...

Congrats to Kimi!

**yahyynzer** · 10-22-2007, 11:10 PM

I think that if McLaren are not WDC is just because of Lewis. He only needed four points in the last two races... and he alone screwed it up. Apart form that I think that McLaren got what they deserve: nothing!

It was funny too to see the equality police that Ferrari and Mclaren have used over the seasson. McLaren have been gambilng with these the whola seasson, when Ferrari only needed to move out one of their cars at the last race. Mclaren should learn a lot from Ferrari about this, and not only try to get their secrets...

Congrats to Kimi!

Totally agree with you.

**GaryBulguihb** · 10-22-2007, 11:17 PM

I'm left with the impression that Mclaren lost the championship instead of Ferrari winning, not that I think Ferrari or Raikkonnen don't deserve it.

Probably their team work and policy is wrong, they seemed unbeatable some months ago and now they have nothing.

The way I see it, if LH were the champion now, we would have several threads about how the driver with the most wins didn't get it.

**soprofaxel** · 10-23-2007, 12:02 AM

Ferrari and McLaren have done nothing wrong in terms of driver equality.

McLaren and LH messed up and threw away their hopes over the last couple of races and that transmission failure or whatever it was didn't help things either. It seems almost quite literally they pressed the 'self-destruct button'!

talking about the McLAren cars. Today, strangely enough LH car had major problems and FA was not able at all to keep up with the two Ferraris. What do you think happened? I thought that on the last race teams would come out with their best cars. Today just the opposite. Your thoughts?

Everyone thought on paper it was going to be a McLaren track but they suffered with too much graining.

The McLaren are very hard on their tyres which is why they're competitive in qualy but not necessarily the race, whereas Ferrari's are a lot 'kinder' to their tyres, hence Massa and Kimi have complained about their 1-lap performance and therefore the Ferraris are less likely to grain.

**Blotassefesek** · 10-23-2007, 12:28 AM

Ferrari and McLaren have done nothing wrong in terms of driver equality.

McLaren and LH messed up and threw away their hopes over the last couple of races and that transmission failure or whatever it was didn't help things either. It seems almost quite literally they pressed the 'self-destruct button'!

Everyone thought on paper it was going to be a McLaren track but they suffered with too much graining.

The McLaren are very hard on their tyres which is why they're competitive in qualy but not necessarily the race, whereas Ferrari's are a lot 'kinder' to their tyres, hence Massa and Kimi have complained about their 1-lap performance and therefore the Ferraris are less likely to grain.

Three other things happened. The resurfaced much smoother track, Ferrari's perpensity to be fast further into their tires stints, and the heat of the track, made it a ferrari frendly track

**Faungarne** · 10-23-2007, 12:52 AM

The way I see it, if LH were the champion now, we would have several threads about how the driver with the most wins didn't get it.

Unless of course he'd won in Brazil in which case he'd be tied with Kimi on 5 wins each.

10-22-2007, 06:18 AM	#1
GaryBulguihb Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 402 Senior Member	McLaren loses it again Something that maybe got lost in all the turbulence surrounding the last race, is that McLaren has again failed to win a WDC. So now it's the 8th consecutive season with no titles, and they have won only two titles in the last 14 seasons. Not particularly exciting for a top team Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-22-2007, 06:23 AM	#2
Elelaytet Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 609 Senior Member	A very good point. It will be interesting to see how their development goes, considering their heavy fine, for next season, too. But you'd have to wonder if their so-called equality policy really works, considering its low result. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-22-2007, 07:58 AM	#3
yahyynzer Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 521 Senior Member	A very good point. It will be interesting to see how their development goes, considering their heavy fine, for next season, too. But you'd have to wonder if their so-called equality policy really works, considering its low result. Don't forget that their 2008 car still have to be inspected by the FIA following the Spygate!! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-22-2007, 09:21 AM	#4
Goalseexere Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 598 Senior Member	talking about the McLAren cars. Today, strangely enough LH car had major problems and FA was not able at all to keep up with the two Ferraris. What do you think happened? I thought that on the last race teams would come out with their best cars. Today just the opposite. Your thoughts? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-22-2007, 09:34 AM	#5
UriDepkeeks Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 396 Senior Member	Lewis' car was probably tuned up to use all the two-race things for a single week (is that just the engine, or is it the gearbox too? Was it simply proposed for gearbox but not yet implemented?) and so the car as a whole was treated differently to usual. Meanwhile, Alonso's car was on it's second race enginewise, so he wouldn't have been able to push as hard and thus match the Ferrari's. But I think the Ferrari's were just so much better that it wouldn't have mattered anyway. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-22-2007, 10:29 AM	#6
Infellgedq Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 478 Senior Member	Seems things have gotten so competitve that minute differences look gigantic Watch only today's race and you would have to say that Ferrari dominates mac...but look at other races, and you would have to say Mac dominates ferrari......seems to be very track dependant On the other hand, clearly Mac's "equality" policy cost them....say what you will, if they had gone with experience instead of potential and "equality", then they would have a wdc right now...probably two races ago Instead Freddie found himself semi-number two/one---and LH made a big stink at the Monaco and got his way...then we had the pit stop, and another big stink by LH which began when he disobeyed his orders like a spoiled brat, and poppa mouthed off.....Put the pole back to FA and he wins or finishes second Then today, the story is Mac has a WDC....instead, Freddie gets mad and does his balckmail number...maxie gets the call, and 100 million dollars later..... Blame Freddie all you want, but it was the actions of LH that started the brouhahaha, first at Monaco and then later about the paddle...leave that out of the picture and Mac has a wdc AND MAYBE the WCC, plus maybe an extra 100 million in its pockets Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-22-2007, 11:14 AM	#7
Goalseexere Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 598 Senior Member	Seems things have gotten so competitve that minute differences look gigantic Watch only today's race and you would have to say that Ferrari dominates mac...but look at other races, and you would have to say Mac dominates ferrari......seems to be very track dependant I agree with your view about the performance of the two cars depending on the track they are racing on. It looks like though, over all, there are more tracks "friendly" to the red cars thatn to the silver ones. Are we going to see another "long" Ferrari next year, although I doubt it? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-22-2007, 01:46 PM	#8
pfcwlkxav Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 463 Senior Member	I think McLaren have been extremely successful this year. It appears to me that they have met all their team goals for the 2007 season. For just about all of 2007 the entire team, collectively, seems to have gone out of their way and done everything they could to shoot themselves in the feet in order to avoid winning any of the championships. Between their documents, other peoples documents, emails, bad strategy calls, driver spats, blackmail threats, tire difficulties, etc., they have done their utmost to avoid the stigma of being called "World Champion". Although others tried to force the championship upon them, McLaren never gave up the good fight, never lost faith that they could avoid the championship even though it meant going down to the very last race to blow the whole thing. In the end, they got what they worked so hard for and my hats off to them. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-22-2007, 03:29 PM	#9
veizKinquiz Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 434 Senior Member	In my opinion reliability trouble at the very wrong time cost them the title again, as it has done in the past SO many times. Remember, Mika in Indianapolis at 2000, the 2001 season, Kimi in 2003 and 2005? During those years, Mclaren had mechanical failures throughout the season. However this year, the MP4-22 was bulletproof all season, but screwed up just at the most crucial moment. Of course, I'm not saying it's the car alone. Hamilton cocked it up for himself too, he is not the innocent party here either. All he had to do was be a bit cautious at the pit entrance in Shanghai and be cooler in the first lap at Brazil, and we would have the proverbial superboy rookie champion giving interviews on how he dreamt of this day, in all of the world tabloids by now. Well, in the end, the coolness and monster pace of the Iceman prevailed more than anything else. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-22-2007, 04:03 PM	#10
markshome23 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 433 Senior Member	I think Lewis lost the championship and caused the mechanical issues, not the other way around. All he had to do when Alonso got past him was keep cool and stick to him like glue. Instead, he made a disastrous attempt to get the place back, ran wide and then I think, went postal on the car Maclaren were obviously missing that part out, but it's what ultimately cost him the championship, trying to beat Alonso. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-22-2007, 05:30 PM	#11
we0MA4MI Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 422 Senior Member	As a McLaren fan, I think they deservedly lost this one. Hopefully they're still up there next year for an untainted title win. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-22-2007, 05:40 PM	#12
Infellgedq Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 478 Senior Member	I think Lewis lost the championship and caused the mechanical issues, not the other way around. All he had to do when Alonso got past him was keep cool and stick to him like glue. Instead, he made a disastrous attempt to get the place back, ran wide and then I think, went postal on the car Maclaren were obviously missing that part out, but it's what ultimately cost him the championship, trying to beat Alonso. my point as well...thos were fast laps at the end from LH until his tires went away most likely...I think the "slowdown" was likely due to his getting the car completely into the wrong gear and then trying not to stall, then shifting around until he figured out what he needed to get going....hardly the fault of the car... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-22-2007, 06:32 PM	#13
CtEkM8Vq Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 531 Senior Member	This year is over, and has been over for a while now. There's not much money in the drivers' championship anyway. It was overall, a positive year for McLaren fans. We found out that our protege is one of the best in the game, we found that Mercedes can make reliable engines if they are rev limited, and we found out that the team is still the same team we enjoyed watching Senna and Prost battle in. Yes, we lost the WDC, but most McLaren fans still have a soft spot somewhere for kimi, even if he now wearing the devil's suite ;-) It was a very good year... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-22-2007, 06:38 PM	#14
XiWm9O9S Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 400 Senior Member	I'm left with the impression that Mclaren lost the championship instead of Ferrari winning, not that I think Ferrari or Raikkonnen don't deserve it. Probably their team work and policy is wrong, they seemed unbeatable some months ago and now they have nothing. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-22-2007, 06:58 PM	#15
PheliarearY Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 581 Senior Member	I think that if McLaren are not WDC is just because of Lewis. He only needed four points in the last two races... and he alone screwed it up. Apart form that I think that McLaren got what they deserve: nothing! It was funny too to see the equality police that Ferrari and Mclaren have used over the seasson. McLaren have been gambilng with these the whola seasson, when Ferrari only needed to move out one of their cars at the last race. Mclaren should learn a lot from Ferrari about this, and not only try to get their secrets... Congrats to Kimi! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

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10-22-2007, 11:10 PM	#16
yahyynzer Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 521 Senior Member	I think that if McLaren are not WDC is just because of Lewis. He only needed four points in the last two races... and he alone screwed it up. Apart form that I think that McLaren got what they deserve: nothing! It was funny too to see the equality police that Ferrari and Mclaren have used over the seasson. McLaren have been gambilng with these the whola seasson, when Ferrari only needed to move out one of their cars at the last race. Mclaren should learn a lot from Ferrari about this, and not only try to get their secrets... Congrats to Kimi! Totally agree with you. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-22-2007, 11:17 PM	#17
GaryBulguihb Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 402 Senior Member	I'm left with the impression that Mclaren lost the championship instead of Ferrari winning, not that I think Ferrari or Raikkonnen don't deserve it. Probably their team work and policy is wrong, they seemed unbeatable some months ago and now they have nothing. The way I see it, if LH were the champion now, we would have several threads about how the driver with the most wins didn't get it. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-23-2007, 12:02 AM	#18
soprofaxel Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 436 Senior Member	Ferrari and McLaren have done nothing wrong in terms of driver equality. McLaren and LH messed up and threw away their hopes over the last couple of races and that transmission failure or whatever it was didn't help things either. It seems almost quite literally they pressed the 'self-destruct button'! talking about the McLAren cars. Today, strangely enough LH car had major problems and FA was not able at all to keep up with the two Ferraris. What do you think happened? I thought that on the last race teams would come out with their best cars. Today just the opposite. Your thoughts? Everyone thought on paper it was going to be a McLaren track but they suffered with too much graining. The McLaren are very hard on their tyres which is why they're competitive in qualy but not necessarily the race, whereas Ferrari's are a lot 'kinder' to their tyres, hence Massa and Kimi have complained about their 1-lap performance and therefore the Ferraris are less likely to grain. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-23-2007, 12:28 AM	#19
Blotassefesek Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 607 Senior Member	Ferrari and McLaren have done nothing wrong in terms of driver equality. McLaren and LH messed up and threw away their hopes over the last couple of races and that transmission failure or whatever it was didn't help things either. It seems almost quite literally they pressed the 'self-destruct button'! Everyone thought on paper it was going to be a McLaren track but they suffered with too much graining. The McLaren are very hard on their tyres which is why they're competitive in qualy but not necessarily the race, whereas Ferrari's are a lot 'kinder' to their tyres, hence Massa and Kimi have complained about their 1-lap performance and therefore the Ferraris are less likely to grain. Three other things happened. The resurfaced much smoother track, Ferrari's perpensity to be fast further into their tires stints, and the heat of the track, made it a ferrari frendly track Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-23-2007, 12:52 AM	#20
Faungarne Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 416 Senior Member	The way I see it, if LH were the champion now, we would have several threads about how the driver with the most wins didn't get it. Unless of course he'd won in Brazil in which case he'd be tied with Kimi on 5 wins each. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote