[BodeOmissemia]

The news of the development of a new rallycar with 1600T and 4WD, with a price around 100 000 euro is very good news. It deserves its own thread.

The current 4wd cars are too expensive for most privateers in regional and national series, and the current economic climate tells us that getting sponsors will get even harder.

Several manufacturers are in dialogue with FIA as we write, with the goal to have the new category car ready for 2013. They will base them around a R3T, and add a generic 4wd system, much like the MaxiRally cars in Argentina.
A very good initiative, lets hope they succeed !

I have stolen this from another thread to give some figures:

This is quite far from the topic but WTH.

I made some hypothetic calculations with the Citroen DS3 R3T as a base.

DS3 R3T kit, which includes the “Racing engine, assembled and bench-tested, ready to be mounted”: 62.000 €
The gravel kit: 7.800 €
Donor car: 30.630 € (it’s the price of a DS3 THP 207 Racing which price in Finland without our beloved car taxes)
Assembling of the car: 20.000 €

62.000 + 7.800 + 30.630 + 20.000 = 100.430 €

What are not needed from the R3T kit for the 4WD formula are the R3T gearbox and the reinforced body shell with roll cage. The spare part price for a Renault Clio R3 body shell is 7.570 € and the spare part price for the gearbox is 9.393 €. The spare part price for the Honda Civic R3 gearbox is 9.000 €.

Choosing 7.600 € as the spare part price for the body shell and 9.000 € for the gearbox and assuming a 10% discount when these parts are included in a complete kit would result in a price of 6.840 € for the body shell and 8.100 € for the gearbox and both summed 14.940 €.

Basic kit for the 4WD = 100.430 - 14.940 = 85.490 €

The 4WD kit I picked from here (post #503)

• Gearbox: 24 500 €
• Rear diff. : 14 500 €
• Propshaft : 3 250 €
• Rear driveshaft : 950 €
• Body shell : 23 000 €
• Gravel hub carrier assembly : 4 200 €
• Rear subframe with arms : 5 300 €

24.500 + 14.500 + 3.250 + 2*950 + 23.000 + 2*4.200 + 5.300 = 80.850 €

Usually there’s a “discount” when buying a complete kit (as you all probably know what the price for a car would be if it would be build using spare part prices).

4WD kit – 10% = 72.765 €
4WD kit – 20% = 64.680 €
4WD kit – 30% = 56.595 €

The “kit discount” for the Honda Civic is ~ 9% and for the Fiesta R2 ~ 30%.

Adding the basic kit and the 4WD kit:

85.490 + 72.765 = 158.255 € for a complete car
85.490 + 64.680 = 150.170 € for a complete car
85.490 + 56.595 = 142.085 € for a complete car

[Patgaepx]

They have my support, RRC's are way too expensive.

[choollaBard]

is this comfirmed or just speculations at the moment? were is it going to be placed? below s2000/s1600T or are they plan to get rid of these categories all together. i dont umderstand why they have to invent new rally car categories every couple of years...

[Mowselelew]

Will anyone sell a 1.6T road car with 4 wheel drive to capitalize on the formula?

[ONLINEPHARMACYCHEAPILLS]

It's a bit different idea Manufacturers and FIA are talking about a possibility of a new class which is 4x4 1.6T but doesn't require production equivalent. So they don't want to create new N4/R4 in a moment when this concept slowly dies. The idea is to find a solution for new affordable 4x4 class. Basically they want to create something like R3T car with addition of a simple controlled 4x4 transmission.

[Mowselelew]

I know; I just like that the R2/R3 has some relevance to a normal car, just like my car has some homologated group N parts that make driving more enjoyable and my ownership experience more pleasant.

[BodeOmissemia]

What factories are involved in this project so far?

[pobrierce]

What factories are involved in this project so far?

I bed Skoda is one, but i dont know. Maybe M-sport too.

[ONLINEPHARMACYCHEAPILLS]

For sure Peugeot for new 208.

[BodeOmissemia]

Done right, this class has the potential to get huge, both in national and regional series!

Maybe also it can become the new academy car?

[nickayary]

Hope Renault will build Clio for this class.

[streMunford]

Lets put first here the public sources for this new formula.

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gpweek (page 39)

and

MaxRally | News | Cheaper Super 2000 category planned

Cheaper Super 2000 category planned


24th July 2011
By Charlie Contadeli

The new-generation Super 2000 cars will be half the price of a current version according to Peugeot Sport’s Bertrand Vallat.

Vallat, who is responsible for the French make’s hugely successful 207 model, revealed that Peugeot and Skoda are in discussions with the FIA, motorsport’s world governing body, regarding the new technical regulations for 2013.

In an interview with respected radio reporter Colin Clark, Vallat said: “Skoda and Peugeot are talking with the FIA for a new car from 2013. It will be a standard car with a 1.6 turbo based on a future model. We are trying to cut the technical cost by half. It will be a big challenge to reduce this cost but we will be working hard with the FIA to achieve this. The category could be good."

The current Super 2000 rules were introduced in 2006. If the cost-cutting plans reach fruition then the new-era S2000 machine could cost approximately 100,000 Euros.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The gpweek story tells that the new formula will be based on current R3 rules and a 1.6 turbo engine must be used which imo suggests that the engine can be taken from another model.

The maxrally story tells that “It will be a standard car with a 1.6 turbo based on a future model” which in turn suggests that the production model must have a 1.6 GDI turbo engine.

I wish it would be a single supplier engine.

I don’t think there are so many makes currently that have a 1.6 GDI turbo engine. Citroen DS3/C4, Peugeot 207/308 and Ford Focus are all I know about.

If the new formula cars should be ready at the beginning of 2013, FIA should publish the rules as early as possible. One year and four months is quite short time to develop and test a new car.

[Mowselelew]

MINI could use the PSA motor as well, correct? I'd much rather see makers start with their own factory standard motor, though a single supplier may cost less.

[BodeOmissemia]

--> Old F: Yes there is a difference btw the two news stories, almost from GrR to GrN as the startcar.

Hopefully FIA will decide on their own this time, and not get pushed by PSA into something that will get too expensive. Imo the cost issue need to be one of the top priorities constructing this class !

[BodeOmissemia]

Suddenly the price almost doubled. GP Week page 17/18. PSA thinks people have more money than they do - pls keep is simple and affordable !

The name R4T also seem to reappear, so maybe that is the real thing, or it is just a GPWeek name ?

[streMunford]

It’s big difference between 100 000 € and 170 000 €. 100 000 € for a special built 4WD car is imo unrealistic which is not the half of a S2000s price.

But as Quesnel said “We want the finished car to cost half of the 2-litre NA S2000 cars - say 170 000 euros – not only at start of the formula but to continue to be available at the level into the future“.

Remember that Mirek once said that the Skoda with tarmac spec is about 235 000 €. A median about 140 000 € is imo more realistic.

[Abanijo]

I think that you can't buy a new competitive S2000 anymore for € 235 000... Think it's closer to (and maybe over) 300 000... So 170 000 Euros looks quite realistic. Remember that a DS3 R3T costs over 100 000 Euros...

[BodeOmissemia]

The Fiesta RRC is also pretty expensive: http://www.fiestarrc.com/index.php/c...17f/no_html,1/

Not sure how many of these that will run in national series, so maybe the R4T is the logical answer for a national top class, if you want more than 5 cars to compete.

[streMunford]

The Fiesta RRC is also pretty expensive: http://www.fiestarrc.com/index.php/c...17f/no_html,1/

On page 2 at the end of “Package options”:

“All three packages include all conversion items to change specification of vehicle to the WRC variant.”

On page 3, “WRC conversion kit”:

“All Regional Rally Cars are supplied in WRC specification with the conversion kit to change the setup of the car to it’s Regional Rally Car Variant. The conversion kit compromises of:

- 30mm Turbo Restrictor
- RRC Front Bumper Assembly
- RRC Rear Tailgate & Spoiler
- RRC Flywheel & Bolts
- Spigot Bearing
- RRC Intercooler Intake Duct”

Whichever is it? A RRC to WRC or a WRC to RRC. Anyway I interpret this that those prices are also the prices of a Fiesta WRC. M-Sport is not selling a WRC car or a RRC car but both in same package?

[BodeOmissemia]

Any news on development on this new class ?
Have they gotten closer on agreeing on the tech regs ?