[compiit]

Arai is around 3s/km off the pace on Corsica, I guess at least half of that is the driver. There are still some more parts to come on the Impreza.

[Phywhewashect]

He was also on Yokohama tyres which is another questionable factor...

[Glamyclitlemi]

Plus I am sure Arai said that the rally was more of a test so was not going to go flat out and bin the car.

[crumoursegemo]

http://www.rallybuzz.com/rally-talsi...er-evox-debut/

Ketomaa demonstrated that clearly if you have a fast quality and experienced driver in a production car N4 or R4 you can achieve very quick and competitive times.

No disrespect to Toshi Arai but he is 45 years old, has never been a "tarmac expert" and is not getting any faster as the years roll by. But I expect him to make some sort of impression against the S2000 front runners in Scotland providing he pushes hard and does'nt make mistakes as he is a quality driver on gravel as his track record shows.

I know its a long way to go for the Rally of Scotland but it would be very interesting to see the stage times Arai's R4 Impreza against one the Factory Protons providing they enter (with the exception of Alistair Mcrae as I suppose he knows the roads inside out).... I get a feeling the Imprezas would at least be very close to the Protons if not posibly even quicker on the long straights???

[spineeupsenry]

Is it just me that thinks that R4 is a complete waste of time and money?

[girlsround]

no...it is a useless idea.

[Fekliopas]

Anything that can get Subarus and Mitsus competitive against S2000 cars will be very valuable for many drivers in the national championships in all countries. There are many people who have sponsorship money from the importers of these cars.
There are a lot of other reasons too ......... try to figure it out.

[Xiciljed]

Well, If you like to compare Ketomaa speed with R4 and normal N4 and Focus WRC in Latvia. Take a look at here:
http://autorally.lv/2011/?pid=3&lng=en&id=7&comp=1&ss=1
Keep in mind that Ketomaa was always first on the road and local knowledge in this rally is very important.
Ketomaa had a puncture on the last stage (like many had) and that is why he lost so much time there.
If you like to know something about Gross speed, then with the old car he was approximately 10 sek faster that Tänak in Saaremaa rally 2010 (Tänak was with Fiesta S2000). But nearly 1.5 minutes behind Ostberg in Subaru
http://www.autosport.ee/rallyreg/?pa...ace_ss_id=285&

[nizcreare]

Jasper vd Heuvel tested the R4 lately and said he's 1 sec per km faster than the regular Evo X!

He had to setup itself because there's not a asphalt kit available he said.

[Phywhewashect]

Again this number flies in the air like always when there is some modification to any car. But 1s/km is HUGE difference. I don't believe in that at all...

[Snitiendumurn]

R4 Sequential Gearbox | Subaru STI - KAPS Závodní pøevodovky

It looks like R4 can use sequential gearbox, which is interesting. I'm sure one will come out for the Evo.

It is not allowed. See page 26 specific regulations: http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/864DF82E9559C3BBC125784D005F574B/$FILE/260%20(11-12)-080311.pdf

Strange that Subaru would make a R4 sequntial box if it not allowed. Is it planned to be allowed in 2012 maybe ?

[nizcreare]

Again this number flies in the air like always when there is some modification to any car. But 1s/km is HUGE difference. I don't believe in that at all...

Maybe he found the perfect setup . Why would he lie about it? Info came from a source of Vd Heuvel, so I don't think it's a way of promoting it. Or he did round the number to 1 sec when it actually was 0.7 secs or so .

I think next sequential gearbox will be allowed?

[dianakroshXX]

Its not a useless idea from the business and economical side of things

Think as RALLYART ITALY or as STI, they know how many group N cars are out there competing and LOOSING against S2000 cars, and they also know that group N cars easily outnumber S2000's. Maybe not everyone will buy the R4 kit but if a percentage of the owner base does, it can still prove quite profitable.

And if you think as an owner, you have a rally car that can't beat an S2000, however you paid much less for your evo X than you would for say, a Fabia, and now rally art is selling a kit that may give you a chance against the S2000's and still will cost you less...

The market is there, thats why they do it!

[sportsbettinge]

Its not a useless idea from the business and economical side of things

Think as RALLYART ITALY or as STI, they know how many group N cars are out there competing and LOOSING against S2000 cars, and they also know that group N cars easily outnumber S2000's. Maybe not everyone will buy the R4 kit but if a percentage of the owner base does, it can still prove quite profitable.

And if you think as an owner, you have a rally car that can't beat an S2000, however you paid much less for your evo X than you would for say, a Fabia, and now rally art is selling a kit that may give you a chance against the S2000's and still will cost you less...

The market is there, thats why they do it!

exactly!

[nizcreare]

Its not a useless idea from the business and economical side of things

Think as RALLYART ITALY or as STI, they know how many group N cars are out there competing and LOOSING against S2000 cars, and they also know that group N cars easily outnumber S2000's. Maybe not everyone will buy the R4 kit but if a percentage of the owner base does, it can still prove quite profitable.

And if you think as an owner, you have a rally car that can't beat an S2000, however you paid much less for your evo X than you would for say, a Fabia, and now rally art is selling a kit that may give you a chance against the S2000's and still will cost you less...

The market is there, thats why they do it!

That's indeed true because he rents and sells Lancers

But because it was from a source close to him I don't see why he would lie there. It would be obvious if it would be in a newsletter or interview..

I was thinking that directly but thought then maybe not. Oh well he'll beat for sure some S2000's in Ypres.

[Phywhewashect]

If it was true, the car would be much faster than S2000. And that's just a fantasy. Moreover such measure apply only on one particular track with one particular driver, one tyres, one weather etc.

And I simply don't believe that let's say 60 kg and better suspension can do 1s/km. Look at that realistically, 1s/km is 5 minutes on a rally like Ypres! Even if it is 0,3 s/km it's still huge improvement.

[nizcreare]

Well with that said, then I'll say indeed it can't be true . If he would be like 5 mins faster in Ypres he'll beat everyone easily . Once again Mirek u teach me some stuff

[Xiciljed]

If it was true, the car would be much faster than S2000. And that's just a fantasy. Moreover such measure apply only on one particular track with one particular driver, one tyres, one weather etc.

And I simply don't believe that let's say 60 kg and better suspension can do 1s/km. Look at that realistically, 1s/km is 5 minutes on a rally like Ypres! Even if it is 0,3 s/km it's still huge improvement.

It depends a lot on surface. For example, when we take South-Estonian rally in 2010
RALLI » Võistlused » Tulemused
Tänak had Subaru with latest improvements (without R4 kit of course, but with bigger restrictor)
He was fastest GrN car
Gardemeister was second 83 sec behind and
Prokop was further behind but without his time penalty he was around 70 sec behind
They covered around 185 km, so he was around 0.38-0.4 sec per km faster (he didn't had to push the last, because he didn't had to). Rally is fast and Subaru with its high speed had an advantage.
Another factor is that I think Tänak was running with BFgoodrich and the others with Pirelli control tires, but I am not sure (Tire company was not visible in Prokop car). Maybe some home rally effect as well (Prokop was also not first timer in South-Estonia).

Two weeks later, Tänak with Mistu and Toni and Prokop with Ford in Finland.
Fastest was Toni, Prokop around 55 sec behind and Tänak around 95 sec behind during the first 13 stages (approximately 190 km) and at the beginning they all pushed very hard. So, now Tänak was 0.5 sec slower than Toni (now Toni had home effect). Yes, this time he had heavier Pirelli car with control tires bust still the difference in two rallies is around 0.9 sec/km between the same two drivers. I do not think it is all down to tires and some extra weight only.

So, a bit softer and sandier surface with some more straights in S-E was more suitable to traditional GrN car than S2000 car. You can also see that Kaur started under supreally on Sunday and he was also faster than Prokop and Gardemeister.
So, if you add R4 kit to those cars, then I think they might be very, very competitive on such a surface, compared to S2000 cars.

[nizcreare]

The surface where Vd Heuvel tested was for sure 100% asphalt.

[Phywhewashect]

It depends a lot on surface. For example, when we take South-Estonian rally in 2010
RALLI » Võistlused » Tulemused
Tänak had Subaru with latest improvements (without R4 kit of course, but with bigger restrictor)
He was fastest GrN car
Gardemeister was second 83 sec behind and
Prokop was further behind but without his time penalty he was around 70 sec behind
They covered around 185 km, so he was around 0.38-0.4 sec per km faster (he didn't had to push the last, because he didn't had to). Rally is fast and Subaru with its high speed had an advantage.
Another factor is that I think Tänak was running with BFgoodrich and the others with Pirelli control tires, but I am not sure (Tire company was not visible in Prokop car). Maybe some home rally effect as well (Prokop was also not first timer in South-Estonia).

Two weeks later, Tänak with Mistu and Toni and Prokop with Ford in Finland.
Fastest was Toni, Prokop around 55 sec behind and Tänak around 95 sec behind during the first 13 stages (approximately 190 km) and at the beginning they all pushed very hard. So, now Tänak was 0.5 sec slower than Toni (now Toni had home effect). Yes, this time he had heavier Pirelli car with control tires bust still the difference in two rallies is around 0.9 sec/km between the same two drivers. I do not think it is all down to tires and some extra weight only.

So, a bit softer and sandier surface with some more straights in S-E was more suitable to traditional GrN car than S2000 car. You can also see that Kaur started under supreally on Sunday and he was also faster than Prokop and Gardemeister.
So, if you add R4 kit to those cars, then I think they might be very, very competitive on such a surface, compared to S2000 cars.

I'm skeptic about comparison based on one or two events and different drivers with different tyres, moreover one local and one newcomer. For me that says nothing about the car

I can fabricate really nice comparisons similar to this one. One very nice is Tlustak and his performance against Cetinkaya :-D In Barum Tlustak was with Fabia and Burcu with Peugeot. She was 3-5 s/km slower without punctures. Now in Turkey both had same Puntos and constantly same (slow) times. So my conclusion is that Fabia is 3-5 s/km faster than 207, right?

It's extreme example but I hope it shows what I mean. There is way too much unknowns in such comparison. You would have to compare those drivers in different cars and tyres for many many events before You could statistically make some valid conclusion.