[jojocomok]

Aye, there would be several questions to ask, however it was a story and an analogy...it wasn't meant to be dissected, but I do understand what you convey ~smiles~ about inaccuracies and lack of thoughtful implications or views.

Oh, I know. It's actually not the inaccuracies or 'folk tale' nature of the story that gets me.
The actual effects of xenophobia alone on the Native Americans during the exploration of the Americas is well documented, this actually isn't the only or weirdest tale from those years.
But they do point out how much 'reality' can play tricks with your head. And most of the time you don't even think about it....spooky

[Qrhzbadu]

Oh, I know. It's actually not the inaccuracies or 'folk tale' nature of the story that gets me.
The actual effects of xenophobia alone on the Native Americans during the exploration of the Americas is well documented, this actually isn't the only or weirdest tale from those years.
But they do point out how much 'reality' can play tricks with your head. And most of the time you don't even think about it....spooky

Heehee noted ~smiles~...aye that is what con artist and illusionists do...they baffle people while playing a seeming magical trick upon them ~chuckles~.

Aye, I've been alone at night in the wilderness and sometimes my mind plays tricks on me...the desert seems to be the worst for it ~chuckles~

[T1ivuQGS]

Okay Folks,

We need to scratch the fourth dimention at the tetraspace site as it conflicts with currently held theories.

So. We are back in our 3D world (the three dimensions of space) and the fourth dimension would be time. This is the commonly accepted understanding.

It seems to me then that we must look for our missing pesky electron in a place called the fifth dimension, that is, an additional dimension of space. This could be similar to the fourth dimension at the tetraspace site.

Problem. We can't see the fifth dimension. And I suppose that this is why we think the electron has disappeared. Well. I wonder. Could this be where 'dark energy' and 'dark matter' reside and this is why science cannot detect it?

Scientists suggest that we can detect only about 4% of the totality of the universe. So where is the other 96%. They suggest that 'dark matter' makes up for about 25% so that would leave 71% being 'dark energy' (unless there is still something more still that we cannot detect).

So, if this 25% 'dark matter' is in a different space/time dimension could it not be so that they are actually six additional parallel universes, all seven occupying the same space/time but a different fifth space dimension?

And let us suppose that our electron is capable of traversing the universes. If this were possible then we would have an electron that was not really disappearing but merely moving from one universe to another. And, of course, as we really need our electron in order to maintain balance within the atom we get an electron back, it reappears. But, is it the same electron or is it a different one? One that came here from a different universe?

Any thoughts?

Peace & Love!

[adultcomicssitedessaa]

Okay Folks,

We need to scratch the fourth dimention at the tetraspace site as it conflicts with currently held theories.

So. We are back in our 3D world (the three dimensions of space) and the fourth dimension would be time. This is the commonly accepted understanding.

It seems to me then that we must look for our missing pesky electron in a place called the fifth dimension, that is, an additional dimension of space. This could be similar to the fourth dimension at the tetraspace site.

Problem. We can't see the fifth dimension. And I suppose that this is why we think the electron has disappeared. Well. I wonder. Could this be where 'dark energy' and 'dark matter' reside and this is why science cannot detect it?

Scientists suggest that we can detect only about 4% of the totality of the universe. So where is the other 96%. They suggest that 'dark matter' makes up for about 25% so that would leave 71% being 'dark energy' (unless there is still something more still that we cannot detect).

So, if this 25% 'dark matter' is in a different space/time dimension could it not be so that they are actually six additional parallel universes, all seven occupying the same space/time but a different fifth space dimension?

And let us suppose that our electron is capable of traversing the universes. If this were possible then we would have an electron that was not really disappearing but merely moving from one universe to another. And, of course, as we really need our electron in order to maintain balance within the atom we get an electron back, it reappears. But, is it the same electron or is it a different one? One that came here from a different universe?

Any thoughts?

Peace & Love!

Time is only linear in my corporal state, in my mind I really have no concept of time and use a watch just so I can keep track of it ~chuckles~. Yes, since the 60's and 70's time has been considered the next deminsion, however I would suspect that time is not the only Quantum Mechanic involved in this, just like Height, Width and Depth are all seemingly one deminsion or plane too us, so perhaps it would just be more than just a single component...

Space is the word given to the whole deminsion I think...sometimes called Real and Conceptual Space...Heighth, Width and Depth make up space, so we would have to find out what compenent and how many make up the compound of time.

You have a good point as there is no way yet to dye or tag an electron to make sure it is the same one coming back and forth into dimensions ~chuckles~. I am assuming that they are part of the same molecular chain which causes the quantum assumption that it is the same one, but I would need to look some .edu stuff up to make sure ~smiles~.

Think of it like a watch band with interlaced/linked sections, as it rolls it only appears to disappear because of the laws of light and reflection. In reality they could still be there but because of the light energy refraction causes a cloaking ability, so we think they disappear into another dimension but they are just invisble like a chameleon or an octopus ~smiles~.

[Flikemommoilt]

Time is only linear in my corporal state, in my mind I really have no concept of time and use a watch just so I can keep track of it ~chuckles~. Yes, since the 60's and 70's time has been considered the next deminsion, however I would suspect that time is not the only Quantum Mechanic involved in this, just like Height, Width and Depth are all seemingly one deminsion or plane too us, so perhaps it would just be more than just a single component...

Space is the word given to the whole deminsion I think...sometimes called Real and Conceptual Space...Heighth, Width and Depth make up space, so we would have to find out what compenent and how many make up the compound of time.

You have a good point as there is no way yet to dye or tag an electron to make sure it is the same one coming back and forth into dimensions ~chuckles~. I am assuming that they are part of the same molecular chain which causes the quantum assumption that it is the same one, but I would need to look some .edu stuff up to make sure ~smiles~.

Think of it like a watch band with interlaced/linked sections, as it rolls it only appears to disappear because of the laws of light and reflection. In reality they could still be there but because of the light energy refraction causes a cloaking ability, so we think they disappear into another dimension but they are just invisble like a chameleon or an octopus ~smiles~.

Hi OP,

Time, according to many (myself included) is cyclical. Cycles are the processes of the universe. Everything goes round. Birth-Death. Growth-Decay. Some events take so long that we cannot detect the cycles – we think that the event is linear. Our calculation of time is for our purposes only – the universe could care less.

If time was not a dimension all space would be static and we all know that everything is constantly changing. It is time that causes change to the first three dimensions. There was a beginning and there will be an end but … each end will bring a new beginning.

Perhaps time is more than one dimension. Perhaps there is a dimension of time that we can perceive and also a dimension that we cannot detect (that of the end of the present universe and the beginning of a new one). And what if there are parallel universes and they are progressing at a different time scale?

And what of black holes? Time does not apply there at all. Everything that is sucked into a black hole disappears into chaos. Everything is still there, those things have added to the mass of the black hole, they just don’t exist in the physical sense – perhaps all those things are now in a different dimension. Perhaps the same thing is happening to our electron. Perhaps our electron is disappearing into chaos and another is replacing it so that the atom will remain in the physical. If one did not replace the missing electron wouldn’t the atom fall apart?

Yes, your watch band is a good example. If the viewer remains in exactly the same place then the links would seem to disappear and reappear. But we know that they really don’t disappear – they are simply in a different dimension inaccessible to the viewer.

But even if our electron is the same one and only disappeared and reappeared, where did it go when it was missing from our perception? It had to still exist.

I need to stop now and await comment.

Peace & Love!

[Dapnoinaacale]

A beautiful mystery!

[Edqpdnuu]

Hi OP,

Time, according to many (myself included) is cyclical. Cycles are the processes of the universe. Everything goes round. Birth-Death. Growth-Decay. Some events take so long that we cannot detect the cycles – we think that the event is linear. Our calculation of time is for our purposes only – the universe could care less.

If time was not a dimension all space would be static and we all know that everything is constantly changing. It is time that causes change to the first three dimensions. There was a beginning and there will be an end but … each end will bring a new beginning.

Perhaps time is more than one dimension. Perhaps there is a dimension of time that we can perceive and also a dimension that we cannot detect (that of the end of the present universe and the beginning of a new one). And what if there are parallel universes and they are progressing at a different time scale?

And what of black holes? Time does not apply there at all. Everything that is sucked into a black hole disappears into chaos. Everything is still there, those things have added to the mass of the black hole, they just don’t exist in the physical sense – perhaps all those things are now in a different dimension. Perhaps the same thing is happening to our electron. Perhaps our electron is disappearing into chaos and another is replacing it so that the atom will remain in the physical. If one did not replace the missing electron wouldn’t the atom fall apart?

Yes, your watch band is a good example. If the viewer remains in exactly the same place then the links would seem to disappear and reappear. But we know that they really don’t disappear – they are simply in a different dimension inaccessible to the viewer.

But even if our electron is the same one and only disappeared and reappeared, where did it go when it was missing from our perception? It had to still exist.

I need to stop now and await comment.

Peace & Love!

Yes, I not only agree on the "Cyclic Principle" but I know it to be true from my own self-scientific observations ~smiles~.

I have always wanted to jump in a black hole just to see where I go...I know I would be slowly stretched and ripped to shreds, but I so want to see what is on the other side ~smiles~

Yes it would be inconceivable to the human mind that things can just exist and then not exist...it defies every living principle and physic law we have acquired thus far ~smiles~. However understanding the finite capabliity of the mind leave that door wide open ~smiles~.

Part of our problem is our perception and the reality we create as a singular and as a whole. Our minds are finite and incapable of probably understanding the ramifications of such deminsions as previously stated by some of the tribal folks in previous posts ~smiles~.

I mean when you look at our mind we use to think the world was flat. Even in the early 90's the greatest scientific minds said we would never transcend the 512MB hard drive boundary, now would we ever need too ~chuckles~. I don't know about you but I have dual 300GB's in my computer ~snickers~. So we are limited by our own minds and perceptions, if we could dislodge our minds and think outside of the box in our hypothesis and theories, that would be a great starting point! ~smiles~

I think you might have had something earlier with the space contingent...it is possible that empty space replaces the electrons as the anti-matter (emptiness) and electrons. Like how the ocean waves move into the shore.....when the wave comes in it is the electron...when the wave moves out and all you see is sand...that would be the anti-matter, so perhaps the universe is like a giant tide? ~smiles~

One thing too is look at the molecular structure of even the smallest atom of Hydrogen...You have your Proton (+), and an Electron (-), then you have 2 neutrons (N) binding the electron and proton together to keep fission/fussion from happening, so wouldn't the stream of electrons be free floating and free from the normal universal processes which apply to most atoms? Perhaps Plasma keeps making these protons and when they disappear they are dispersed through the mega cosmos to keep the universe from going into a Big Bang once again by preventing such fussionary reaction ~chuckles~?

[sapedotru]

Nice response OP. I will wait for, hopefully, more input.

Peace & Love!

[n2Oddw8P]

Can I ask a question. I am understand that at the Quantum level things are random and not so predictable. To say something has appeared means we can detect a thing. To say a thing has disappeared means we cannot detect a thing. In both positions it relies on human ability to detect a thing is there or not there. A bit like turning the light off and on. Now you see it, now you dont.
My question is this:- is it possible that just because a thing is not detected, is it still possible for it to be still there?

[heennaRaf]

Can I ask a question. I am understand that at the Quantum level things are random and not so predictable. To say something has appeared means we can detect a thing. To say a thing has disappeared means we cannot detect a thing. In both positions it relies on human ability to detect a thing is there or not there. A bit like turning the light off and on. Now you see it, now you dont.
My question is this:- is it possible that just because a thing is not detected, is it still possible for it to be still there?

I was speculating on that earlier..kind of a light refraction trick that causes a cloaking device like some creatures do, but I do like the Cosmic Tide Theory ~chuckles~.

[AccusaJalsBub]

Hi Pete,

To answer your question without looking up any information, just from what I understand at the present - - Yes.

The reason I feel comfortable in saying yes is that, as noted above, science believes that it can at present detect only about 4% of the universe, that is only 4% of the total energy and mass. This, of course, leaves 96% that we cannot detect. It is very possible that the electron is still in its current path but that it takes on a state the we cannot detect and then reverts back to a state that can be observed.

And yes, when the scientists start talking about string theory everything gets a little wild. The last time I read anything on that was that they needed between 11 and 13 dimensions in order for string theory to work, that is, in order for the scientists to use string theory to explain the totality of the universe.

Peace & Love!

[Tazqoaap]

Interesting article in the New York times this morning at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/25/science/25dark.html

Scientists believe they may have detected the results of two small masses of dark matter colliding and being destroyed. I found this interesting:

"But if he is right, Dr. Wefel said that the ATIC data favored something even more exotic than supersymmetry, namely a particle that is lost in the fifth dimension. String theory predicts that there are at least six dimensions beyond our simple grasp, wrapped up so tightly we cannot see them or park in them. A particle in one of these dimensions would not appear to us directly."

It spoke to one of the ideas being discussed here.

Peace & Love!

[lookanddiscover]

Interesting article in the New York times this morning at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/25/science/25dark.html

Scientists believe they may have detected the results of two small masses of dark matter colliding and being destroyed. I found this interesting:

"But if he is right, Dr. Wefel said that the ATIC data favored something even more exotic than supersymmetry, namely a particle that is lost in the fifth dimension. String theory predicts that there are at least six dimensions beyond our simple grasp, wrapped up so tightly we cannot see them or park in them. A particle in one of these dimensions would not appear to us directly."

It spoke to one of the ideas being discussed here.

Peace & Love!

~chuckles~ WIMPS?! Nice abbreviation ~chuckles~

Dark matter wind....that might explain some things we can't see ~smiles~

Fermi-Gamma should really help it will far outpower and perform hubble ~smiles~

Go Pamela fly high and bring us back some concrete baby! ~smiles~

[Galinastva]

Okay. It seems that we have gone as far as we can with this discussion with our current thinking.

So we have an electron (and who knows what else) that disappears (from our observation) and then reappears in a different place.

And we are told to understand that we can perceive only 4% of our universe (this is the portion that is physically observable with the knowledge we have at present.

I would like to submit at this time a though that was presented by Dr. Wayne L Wang in his translation of the ‘Tao Te Ching’ titled “Dynamic Tao”.

Dr. Wang analyzed the ‘Tao Te Ching’ from a scientific view. He holds to the ‘Big Bang’ theory of the creation of the universe. Prior to the ‘Big Bang’ all was chaos. Everything existed, it’s just that ‘things’ were indistinguishable – All was One (Tao).

The ‘Big Bang’ happened (for whatever the reason – he calls it Tzujan – Nature without reason) and One separated into Mystery (we will call this “Wu”) and Chi (the energy of the universe). Although Wu and Chi are different aspects of One, Chi permeates all of Wu.

After a period of time Manifest (we will call this “Yo”) formed out of Wu to form things (the Ten Thousand Things), the detectable universe. At this point we have what is understood at this point in time: 4% Yo (the physical. observable universe), 25% Wu (unmanifested matter, “Dark Matter”), and 71% Chi (“Dark Energy”).

Yo is constantly transmutating in and out of Wu. We see this in the processes of birth and death, creation and destruction, etc. Wu and Yo are fundamentally the same thing except that we can detect Yo but we cannot detect Wu. Exactly where Wu is we do not know exactly – perhaps in a different dimension (space/time).

Dr. Wang then takes this understanding to the level of man’s perception depending on man’s level of consciousness. In the Yo state man perceives only the Manifest – in the Wu state he(she) perceives only the Mystery. In other words, in the state of Yo we see only the “Ten Thousand Things” but in the state of Wu we see Oneness (we become aware of the thought that all things are One).

Those of us who view the universe from the state of Yo are called people of the material world. They hold to no spirituality, they see all things as individual things, each separate from the other. Those who view the universe from the state of Wu see only Oneness.

In the state of Wu it would be next to impossible to live in the material world. We would not be able to differentiate between this and that. We wouldn’t care about anything since All is One – this is the same as that. Not a good way to preserve one’s life.

In the state of Yo all we would care about is ourself. Afterall, every thing is separate from every other thing. Not a good way to interact with all other things and especially other life forms.

So Dr. Wang suggests that we should find a condition (state of consciousness) somewhere between full Wu and full Yo. This would allow us to live our physical life in the best way possible in order to insure a comfortable life for ourself but also understand the Oneness of all things so we would conduct ourself in such a manner so to cause as little as possible negative effects to all else.

Okay. Back to our missing electron, it is still with us, it is just in the Wu (or another) state. Just as something that we have eaten, it is still with us even though we can no longer see it. Everything transmutates over time. It’s still there – just in a different form.

Enough for now. Comments?

Peace & Love!

[BV6lwvXf]

I guess its "just watch this spot" and see what they come up with.
Thanks JimBob.

[Smittoh]

Okay. It seems that we have gone as far as we can with this discussion with our current thinking.

So we have an electron (and who knows what else) that disappears (from our observation) and then reappears in a different place.

And we are told to understand that we can perceive only 4% of our universe (this is the portion that is physically observable with the knowledge we have at present.

I would like to submit at this time a though that was presented by Dr. Wayne L Wang in his translation of the ‘Tao Te Ching’ titled “Dynamic Tao”.

Dr. Wang analyzed the ‘Tao Te Ching’ from a scientific view. He holds to the ‘Big Bang’ theory of the creation of the universe. Prior to the ‘Big Bang’ all was chaos. Everything existed, it’s just that ‘things’ were indistinguishable – All was One (Tao).

The ‘Big Bang’ happened (for whatever the reason – he calls it Tzujan – Nature without reason) and One separated into Mystery (we will call this “Wu”) and Chi (the energy of the universe). Although Wu and Chi are different aspects of One, Chi permeates all of Wu.

After a period of time Manifest (we will call this “Yo”) formed out of Wu to form things (the Ten Thousand Things), the detectable universe. At this point we have what is understood at this point in time: 4% Yo (the physical. observable universe), 25% Wu (unmanifested matter, “Dark Matter”), and 71% Chi (“Dark Energy”).

Yo is constantly transmutating in and out of Wu. We see this in the processes of birth and death, creation and destruction, etc. Wu and Yo are fundamentally the same thing except that we can detect Yo but we cannot detect Wu. Exactly where Wu is we do not know exactly – perhaps in a different dimension (space/time).

Dr. Wang then takes this understanding to the level of man’s perception depending on man’s level of consciousness. In the Yo state man perceives only the Manifest – in the Wu state he(she) perceives only the Mystery. In other words, in the state of Yo we see only the “Ten Thousand Things” but in the state of Wu we see Oneness (we become aware of the thought that all things are One).

Those of us who view the universe from the state of Yo are called people of the material world. They hold to no spirituality, they see all things as individual things, each separate from the other. Those who view the universe from the state of Wu see only Oneness.

In the state of Wu it would be next to impossible to live in the material world. We would not be able to differentiate between this and that. We wouldn’t care about anything since All is One – this is the same as that. Not a good way to preserve one’s life.

In the state of Yo all we would care about is ourself. Afterall, every thing is separate from every other thing. Not a good way to interact with all other things and especially other life forms.

So Dr. Wang suggests that we should find a condition (state of consciousness) somewhere between full Wu and full Yo. This would allow us to live our physical life in the best way possible in order to insure a comfortable life for ourself but also understand the Oneness of all things so we would conduct ourself in such a manner so to cause as little as possible negative effects to all else.

Okay. Back to our missing electron, it is still with us, it is just in the Wu (or another) state. Just as something that we have eaten, it is still with us even though we can no longer see it. Everything transmutates over time. It’s still there – just in a different form.

Enough for now. Comments?

Peace & Love!

Yes it was fun

[eI7iqNot]

Realization is the point at which you stop thinking.

Maybe, (yes, probably, in fact) it was never an 'electron' in the first place....

[lagunaEl]

Yeah. Which is right, absolutely?

I don't know.

Peace & Love!

[D6Ri5u13]

Here's some info I found:

Is there a relationship between negative fields as found in an electron and the crushing implosions of black hole singularities, and the generation of electromagnetic implosions caused by high energy pulsed electromagnetic currents

Keywords: black hole, electron, Planck charge, gravity, quantum physics.

The electron, whether you like it as a well defined shape or as a (more likely) hazy blob of wavelike matter, has not surrendered all of its secrets. The quark structure is a comprehensive description of the possible excited states of matter but has added little to the understanding of the intimate nature of the electron. What we need is a leapforward enabling us to glimpse at the core of this particle and find a viable relationship between what is supposed totake place inside and what is measured outside. This is not as easy as it sounds because the hypothesis putforward here is that the electron itself is a miniature black hole analog. Besides, it would be highly desirable to define the black hole with the Planck time and mass only and have all the electron properties of charge, mass, without introducing any additional parameters. In practice we should be able to define the electron using only the constant of gravitation, Planck's constant, and the speed of light.

So basically, electrons don't go anywhere, they change state due to some kind of environmental stimus.

[PilotJargon]

Sounds nice and totally un-understood to me.

Maybe there are some things that we are just not capable of knowing.

Peace & Love!