[curcercanty]

Should religious leaders bring their political goals to the pulpit? Now, that is a good question and one that deserves some thought instead of a quick "no" or "yes."

I'm not sure I know the answer to the question as I don't attend religious services anywhere and I'm not sure of the power that they truly have over people. I do relate it to union meetings, where political candidates are supported and endorsed by the not-for-profit. When I first became a member, I resented being told who to vote for. However, I did enjoy the candidates coming before the meeting and being allowed to speak to us. It made me feel that the candidates really care about getting our votes - cared enough to speak to us.

Now, as I've been an union member for 13-yrs, I understand their logic in endorsing candidates. They support people that are pro labor. Still, it doesn't mean I will vote the way they tell me too. However, it is useful information to know where the candidates stand on issues that affect my employment ( a large part of my life).

If I apply the same logic to religious services, then I would have to say "yes." However, I am open to changing my mind if better arguments are made.

[replicaypu]

Should religious leaders bring their political goals to the pulpit? Now, that is a good question and one that deserves some thought instead of a quick "no" or "yes."

I'm not sure I know the answer to the question as I don't attend religious services anywhere and I'm not sure of the power that they truly have over people. I do relate it to union meetings, where political candidates are supported and endorsed by the not-for-profit. When I first became a member, I resented being told who to vote for. However, I did enjoy the candidates coming before the meeting and being allowed to speak to us. It made me feel that the candidates really care about getting our votes - cared enough to speak to us.

Now, as I've been an union member for 13-yrs, I understand their logic in endorsing candidates. They support people that are pro labor. Still, it doesn't mean I will vote the way they tell me too. However, it is useful information to know where the candidates stand on issues that affect my employment ( a large part of my life).

If I apply the same logic to religious services, then I would have to say "yes." However, I am open to changing my mind if better arguments are made.

I always resisted unions they have good points
and not so good points. My mothers cousin was
involved as a trade union organizer (James Connolly)
back in the late 1800's when an Eight hour work
day was being sought.

I grew up in a very strong religious family/ community;
my family was also a strong political family.Our church
RC never condoned the IRA and we knew that Religion
and politics had different influences. Although the Rev.
Ian Paisley from another religious community was deeply
embedded in politics and he used the pulpit to incite riots.
I agree with Greyface "that you know who to stay away
from" the company you keep can have ripples of hate over
flow into your world. Who needs THEIR baggage?

From my personal experience, I would say that people in
positions such as ministries can have and do influence their
flock. When its laced with hatred as Rev. Wright & Rev.Phleger
exhibited, in my opinion they keep racisim alive. It was
interesting to see Jesse Jackson along side Phleger another
influential leader.

Maybe this issue will flush out the true meaning of "we shall
overcome someday" and DR. Martin Luther King's message will
come alive again, as people of all colors re-new/start to work
together for the good of wo/mankind.

[Rithlilky]

I am not going to give the knee jerk reaction of HELL NO with out giving this some thought. I feel that the most that a clergy member can say is "Go out and vote, I don't care who for, just vote." Now as to what the minister said and to the way it has come across, HELL NO!!!!

[JakeBarkings]

"When its laced with hatred as Rev. Wright & Rev.Phleger
exhibited, in my opinion they keep racisim alive."

I agree that Wright and Phleger are working to keep racism alive; they hurt Obama. Its difficult to believe the cheers Phleger was getting in the video.

[GenryDont]

"I am not going to give the knee jerk reaction of HELL NO"

The big bold colored print indicates emotion, rather than thought.

[Mabeavyledlib]

"I am not going to give the knee jerk reaction of HELL NO"

The big bold colored print indicates emotion, rather than thought.

Hence the reason for the big bold letters, to illustrate the idea. Reading the rest of the statement should have indicated it as such.

[grofvuri]

I agree that this is something we need to think about. That's why I've been doing it for, well, most of my life.... Not this particular situation, but related ideas and concepts.
Considering that, here's the Right answer (no kidding. I swear!):

Should? No. The things politicians and religious leaders 'should' do is the same as what the rest of us 'should' do. Eat, Sleep, Poop, Die, etc...

I think we tend to forget that old saying: "It takes all kinds." Where would you be if you never had to 'rise above'. Probably watching TV instead of in a philosophical discussion that helps shape our future.

I think we also tend to forget that people, regardless of their station as "Leaders", "Authorities", or "Scumbags", are just people. If you have political goals, you take them everywhere. Why would it be any different for a Priest or a Baker? The things you believe are as much a part of you as your arms. Leave those behind before the next time you minister...

Also, why is it that we create a 'world' and set out trying to decide what should and shouldn't happen within it. Do we think we are the Masters of the Universe? Phhhpht!
Things will happen whether we want it to or not. Everyone knows that.

So, then, what do I mean by all of this digression?

All of the answers given here are the right answer. It's the question that's "wrong". (No Offense Chi, and the millions of others who've asked this question since the Inquisition...)

If you want to know what 'should' happen, all you have to do is watch what does happen.
Because it's that action that sets us on the path to our future, good or bad.

"Should" religious leaders bring their political goals to the pulpit? Doesn't matter.
It's already happened. Innumerable times, in capacities ranging from outright rule of an empire, to unnoticed 'informing' of a small town preachers Sunday Sermon. Looking at that track record, I think it'd be a safe bet to say it not going to stop anytime soon. And as much as Lady America wishes to separate church from state, it'll will never happen unless you remove people from one or both of those 'entities'.

So, then:

Should religious leaders bring their political goals to the pulpit?

Try a different church.

[Kryfamid]

Very nice greyface......

[Vznvtthq]

hrm.. I'd not care to sit and listen to a preacher who mocked people in general.
muchless one who told me how to think in a manner which was outside his sphere of concern.
to me , church and state should be and remain seperate.. As a reply said above.. if religion can be removed from .gov ground then vice versa. Perhaps there needs to be a law on that. .everything else mundane gets one. Yes, a bit cynical today.

[GillTeepbew]

It is true that religious ministers are human
and have feelings about who they want
elected. Preaching politics from a pulpit
is not the right arena, there are political
rallies, door to door, TV adds and voting
booths available for that purpose.

Public religious/ political/ opinions should not
be trashing another human being.Slander is
not acceptable and crosses the line in a civilized
society. In the political arena I understand that
a third party can/is hired to sling the mudd
while the candidates behave as though they are
innocent of such behavior. That's what makes
it difficult when looking for the best candidate
to be OUR president. Looking at the # of folks
voting in the primaries, it seems like the USA is
divided.

[VrQsgM7c]

"why is it that we create a 'world' and set out trying to decide what should and shouldn't happen within it. Do we think we are the Masters of the Universe? Phhhpht! Things will happen whether we want it to or not. Everyone knows that."

Yes, I am the master of my universe. I grew up in an era, where we believe we could change the world. I still believe that today. The truth is we cannot change the past, but we can affect the future. If enough people believe that bringing politics to the pulpit is wrong and shouldn't occur, they could ban together for laws that govern religious leaders. - This is the difference between the people that grew up in the 60s-70s era, compared to young people today.

Folks, we create the world in which we live. If we are resigned to let things happen, then the resigned people will get run over...

Plato said, "The price of apathy toward public affairs is the be ruled by evil men."

[catermos]

"So, then:

Should religious leaders bring their political goals to the pulpit?

Try a different church."

Obama and you seem to be on the same page. I strongly disagree. The answer is to work to make the changes you wish to see.

Will Obama abandon the USA, if people embarrass him in the world arena?

PS. I'm not anti Obama...it may be a tough choice for me to pick between him and McCain. I am examining all candidates.

[LINETFAD]

Yes, I am the master of my universe.

Yep. I had to smile. Not because I disagree but because I feel that same way. My reality is what I make it. Oh, sure, others do sometimes effect me but most times I just let what others do slide right on by.

Every morning when I get up and know that I must leave my sanctuary I pledge that I will not allow anyone to screw up my day. It is rare that anyone gets beyond my defenses.

BTW: There are laws governing political activities and the (tax-exempt) churches. Sometimes they are enforced but most times they are not.

And life goes on whether we care or not.

Peace & Love!

[tyclislavaify]

Everyone is entitled to their opinnions, Freedom of Speach is one of our Countries greatest attributes...even if we don't like what is being said, by whom and to whom.

I feel it is the responsibility of the one listening to be a sheep or have an independant neuron between their ears.

By CARYN ROUSSEAU, Associated Press Writer Fri May 30, 6:00 AM ET

[huerta]

Everyone is entitled to their opinnions, Freedom of Speach is one of our Countries greatest attributes...even if we don't like what is being said, by whom and to whom.

I feel it is the responsibility of the one listening to be a sheep or have an independant neuron between their ears.

Freedom of speech is wonderful. Took me
some time to get use to it when I first
came to the US.

Free thinking takes time to understand.
Depending what your family culture is
and how much exposure you have to
other cultures.

[sposteTipsKage]

Preaching politics from a pulpit
is not the right arena, there are political
rallies, door to door, TV adds and voting
booths available for that purpose.

Hearing your preacher "campaign" is the same as hearing your mechanic "campaign".
Nothing more, nothing less. And you can fix your own car/soul.

Public religious/ political/ opinions should not
be trashing another human being.Slander is
not acceptable and crosses the line in a civilized
society.

I agree, but a question has been raised by this.

Are we a civilized society, considering the actions taken by members of our society; or are we just trying to be civilized...?

Yes, I am the master of my universe. I grew up in an era, where we believe we could change the world. I still believe that today. The truth is we cannot change the past, but we can affect the future. If enough people believe that bringing politics to the pulpit is wrong and shouldn't occur, they could ban together for laws that govern religious leaders. - This is the difference between the people that grew up in the 60s-70s era, compared to young people today.

Folks, we create the world in which we live. If we are resigned to let things happen, then the resigned people will get run over...

Plato said, "The price of apathy toward public affairs is the be ruled by evil men."

I hear this a lot, in fact, I say it alot. A couple of things though.

I agree that you are the master of YOUR reality.
You are not however, the master of mine, or anyone else's.
What does that leave for 'our' reality?
In light of that, and while it may sound selfish, isn't my reality more important than our reality? Considering of course that I have the power to change my reality, and very little power over the cumulative "Ultimate Reality", which I might add, may or may not exist anyway.

I also agree with the statement 'we can change the world.' In fact, in almost all of the 'main points of history', that's exactly what happened. If there wasn't a change, what's to report? That's something that All Generations, from the time of Og the caveman to Klutahr the Martian have in common.
But (and this is a very very big but): Define we, change, and world. Now have Hitler, Ghandi, and The Pope do the same.

As an additive to that, I'd like you all to see this photograph of 'the world' from outside our solar system:Pale Blue Dot
In the words of Carl Sagan:
"Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader", every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there-on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds."

That picture wasn't taken that long ago. You could, in fact, be "in" that picture.

Let that sink in a minute.

My 'reality', no, in fact the entire history of human endeavor; is nothing but a puny, insignificant, nothingness, or less; in comparison to the crushing massiveness of time and space. And yet, My person-specific 'reality' is the only real thing of importance here in my life, simply because it IS my life.

What a fool would I be then to assume Godlike Will, and set out on a Campaign to "Change the World."

With that in mind, within my 'reality', this conversation is more 'important' than the actual subject this conversation is about. It brings me enjoyment, and causes me to think.
Spending my time trying to change the reality of a Fool who takes it upon himself to do work for me, that I didn't ask for, and that he is not qualified to do, (Like going to the Optometrist to get my oil changed, or listening to my priest tell me who I 'should' vote for.) is a waste. Especially since: #1 I'm only the master of my reality, not the Fool's (Unless I try, then they are one and the same.) and #2 I have a place where I can listen to a gaggle of different viewpoints on politics from a diverse group of 'religious leaders'- this forum. (You guys didn't think I'd let us off the hook in a thread like this did you? You should know me better than that... If you are a Minister, the world is your pulpit. Don't believe me? Ask the Pope's call girl. Oh, he doesn't have one? Wonder why.)

I am definitely resigned to let things happen. Specifically the things I am apathetic about.
I am definitely standing against those things I do not wish to happen, and am pushing to help other things happen that I am in agreement with.
If something should come along and run me over, well... that's life, man. Hopefully I can be as prepared for it as possible. And if not, I guess I'll suck it up, and drive on.

Jesus changed the world. Ghandi changed the world, so did Osama, so did Emperor Norton. And look at the state we're in.

Before you go getting all "things are so terrible"; find a little kid, and laugh with him. Pet your dog.
Imagine Og doing the same, and Klutahr as well.

Because that's what it's all about.

Not forcing a gag order on some damned fool priest.




I've heard it a lot: I'm from the Apathetic Generation. From those who spent their time trying to get their parents to see their viewpoint, I'd think they'd look deeper.

Apathy? No, no. Far from it.

We've already seen photographic evidence of what all of the world problems amount to: Stardust.
We've all learned in history the effects of 'changing the world'.

Again: Apathy? No, maybe I've just found something better to do with my blip of time I'm given.
And maybe, just maybe, the real problem is that there's too many people out there trying to change the world; instead of trying to change their world.

Apathy? No, I just know my place, and what I'm here to do. And that's where my energy goes.

"I trust the rest of you men can hang yourselves? I've got more enjoyable things to do."-Hagbard






P.S. Sorry about the novel.

[denyffishh]

"I trust the rest of you men can hang yourselves? I've got more enjoyable things to do."-Hagbard


Your quote says it all... (apathy for fellow men)

May I suggest this philosophy instead, "From caring comes courage," by Lao Tzu.

[CathBraunn]

"I trust the rest of you men can hang yourselves? I've got more enjoyable things to do."-Hagbard


Your quote says it all... (apathy for fellow men)

May I suggest this philosophy instead, "From caring comes courage," by Lao Tzu.

Apathy is what causes someone to free condemned prisoners?
Apathy is what causes someone to give you the right to decide for yourself to live or die?

Someone is actually going to commit suicide, just because the Executioner wants the day off?
Anybody that is that stupid, needs to get the hell off my planet, They're the problem.

Don't mistake the tone for the melody.




There is a story about a man who goes to a monastery to study Zen.
When he arrives, it is very late, and after moving in, he goes right to sleep.
In the morning, after breakfast, he goes to the Sensei to be given his first lesson.
The master asks him: "Have you eaten your rice porridge?"
The monk answers yes, to which the master replies, "Then you had better wash your bowl."


My Philosophy: Philosophy? No. Breakfast. That's the reason for philosophy.

[GDRussiayear]

greyface, I agree with EVERYTHING you have written. Thanks for writing it....

Apathy is what causes someone to free condemned prisoners?
Apathy is what causes someone to give you the right to decide for yourself to live or die?

Someone is actually going to commit suicide, just because the Executioner wants the day off?
Anybody that is that stupid, needs to get the hell off my planet, They're the problem.

Don't mistake the tone for the melody.




There is a story about a man who goes to a monastery to study Zen.
When he arrives, it is very late, and after moving in, he goes right to sleep.
In the morning, after breakfast, he goes to the Sensei to be given his first lesson.
The master asks him: "Have you eaten your rice porridge?"
The monk answers yes, to which the master replies, "Then you had better wash your bowl."


My Philosophy: Philosophy? No. Breakfast. That's the reason for philosophy.

[tramadolwithall]

Hi All,

What a fun story this has become.

Reminded me again of the thought: "Everything matters but nothing really matters."

And back to the concept of the thread (Hehehe) it just seems to me that when one goes to church they would expect the preacher to talk about God and not about Hilery or Obama or John.

I wouldn't expect my auto repair person to ask me how my refridgerator is working when I take my pickup in for maintenance.

Peace & Love!