[Abnorbprootly]

How is everyone getting on? I was very relieved to finish this last night - I found it excruciatingly dull on the whole. I know now why it wasn't included on my uni-Thomas-Mann syllabus and for those whose first Mann this was, and who might be put off by it, I'd recommend Buddenbrooks, which is everything that this isn't. Or if you want something shorter, Death In Venice, which I'm going to read in February. I need a faith restorer.

Sybarite - could you provide details of the letters between Thomas and Heinrich that you were reading?

[saopinax]

How is everyone getting on? I was very relieved to finish this last night - I found it excruciatingly dull on the whole. I know now why it wasn't included on my uni-Thomas-Mann syllabus and for those whose first Mann this was, and who might be put off by it, I'd recommend Buddenbrooks, which is everything that this isn't. Or if you want something shorter, Death In Venice, which I'm going to read in February. I need a faith restorer.

It was my first Thomas Mann and I really enjoyed it so it sounds like I'm in for a real treat with his others! I have Death in Venice but it is translated by H.T. Lowe-Porter who reportedly changed things around that she didn't like. I think I'd prefer to read a different translation! Which do you have, Lizzy?

On to the next chapter, Albrecht II, where the Spoelmanns enter the story. Mr Spoelmann has inherited his wealth so cannot be "blamed" (page 133 in my edition). It is his father who is the real Leviathan and Croesus (I had to look these up on wikipedia, and I'm not sure I understand why Spoelman is referred to as a Leviathan (sea monster?). Croesus makes sense because he is rich.

[Abnorbprootly]

It was my first Thomas Mann and I really enjoyed it so it sounds like I'm in for a real treat with his others! I have Death in Venice but it is translated by H.T. Lowe-Porter who reportedly changed things around that she didn't like. I think I'd prefer to read a different translation! Which do you have, Lizzy?

On to the next chapter, Albrecht II, where the Spoelmanns enter the story. Mr Spoelmann has inherited his wealth so cannot be "blamed" (page 133 in my edition). It is his father who is the real Leviathan and Croesus (I had to look these up on wikipedia, and I'm not sure I understand why Spoelman is referred to as a Leviathan (sea monster?). Croesus makes sense because he is rich.

I always thought leviathan = crocodile. Huge jaws, made money by eating up others?

I also have the Lowe-Porter translation of Death in Venice. I didn't know that about it. Neither do I have the original German text to hand. I shall have to do some digging.

[saopinax]

I always thought leviathan = crocodile. Huge jaws, made money by eating up others?

Oh, that would make sense.

I also have the Lowe-Porter translation of Death in Venice. I didn't know that about it. Neither do I have the original German text to hand. I shall have to do some digging.

Someone here wrote that (about Lowe-Porter) on this thread but it was during the days which posts were lost. I can't remember who said it.

[bapimporb]

Hi everyone,

It was me who mentioned that Lowe-Porter had apparently changed and/or altered parts of Death in Venice because she didn't like them ? it was mentioned in a copy of the book that I've got, in the introduction by the translator ? I'm at work now, so I'll check the name later.

As to the letters, I'll look that stuff up again when I have the chance. I'm afraid I've been out of touch for a few days, and will be pretty busy for the rest of this week.

[saopinax]

Here's a line (p.134 in my book) which really made me laugh:

[bapimporb]

[quote]Here's a line (p.134 in my book) which really made me laugh:

[zoolissentesy]

What do you think Mann was trying to say by creating Imma as an American? It almost seemed that he might be having a bit of fun in portraying her as something akin to a hog on ice. I think for the purpose of Klaus Heinrich's expansion, wouldn't any good woman (who tripped Klaus' trigger) have suited the purpose? Did Mann view Americans positively? Or is this reading too much into the text...

[saopinax]

What do you think Mann was trying to say by creating Imma as an American? It almost seemed that he might be having a bit of fun in portraying her as something akin to a hog on ice. I think for the purpose of Klaus Heinrich's expansion, wouldn't any good woman (who tripped Klaus' trigger) have suited the purpose? Did Mann view Americans positively? Or is this reading too much into the text...

I think there was a reason and it had to do with racism. She and her father left the US because they were treatly badly because they had Indian blood (generationally quint, quad, tre). It was okay in Germany - they were not shunned.

I think I wrote earlier that I thought inheritance was a major theme in this book. Imma and Klaus Heinrich had that in common - KH inherited his title; Imma and her father inherited their wealth. There was nothing they could do about it. Imma inherited her Indian blood. When Imma notices KH's left hand (which is remarkedly late given the amount of time they have spent together!) she asks "Were you born like that?" She seems to like him better following this and softens a bit - he is human after all, with this imperfection. He then lets down his guard completely, he is so relieved to not have to hide it.

[bapimporb]

I think it's also to do with the US representing the 'new world' ? modernity ? as opposed to 'old, old-fashioned Europe'.