[unlomarma]

I imagine these guys can be useful to quite a few countries as subjects for interrogation. Thats all I can think of.

[nvmrfgopyy]

Can the person in charge of HIG please be known by the title of Boson?

[topbonuscasino]

Royalist scum.

[N1bNXuDb]

Hello there! I see you are discussing torture. Perhaps I can be of assistance.

Apparently the mods will allow Japher's flames and personal attacks to continue. Bill of Rights, banks, law is clear that the founders of our brave and famous. No one is immune Nagens radiation level terrorism alert. Liberal political thought of Korea has opened a human problem. Governor Spitzer, all Iraqis are dying for their FEMA. But this was all before 9-11. 9-11 changed everything. Now it is to Indian gaming laws that Christopher Dodd is immune, Hannity's new book, sedition, you name it. Absolutely disgraceful.

[temansertewek]

If we're going to be sending terrorist suspects to Third World countries not to be to tortured, why don't we just keep them here, not torture them, and save the airfare?

I don't think Obama got the memo that says only Republicans lie.

[Kalobbis]

If we're going to be sending terrorist suspects to Third World countries not to be to tortured, why don't we just keep them here, not torture them, and save the airfare?

I don't think Obama got the memo that says only Republicans lie.

Habeas Corpus? Those persnickety American courts?

[tipoketpu]

Exactly. They have the better case. So according to the numbnuts theory, we just let them go. We can't hold them, numbnuts don't like that. Let them go? I don't like that.
Send them.

[neonasafluni]

That's our position. Whether that's the position of the country with the better case, isn't on us.

[D6b2v1HA]

Fug. Here I thought I would never agree with Moby.

[Darlmtgq]

Ugh. Guys, governments torture people - always have, always will. ...

I strongly disagree with the "always will" statement. All that has to happen is for governmental officials to learn that torture is counterproductive.

The CIA tortured Al Qaeda big wigs hundreds of times at Gitmo. The result was zippo.

Saddam Hussein was treated humanely, and he blabbed his head off.

[Klissineopar]

The CIA tortured Al Qaeda big wigs hundreds of times at Gitmo. The result was zippo.

You do realize that according to the document dump by Obama, the program was considered to be an "absolute success" right?

[aliceingoogs]

Ugh. Guys, governments torture people - always have, always will. All the **** that happened during Bush's administration and now Obama's is merely theater; to pretend otherwise is naive.

If you actually care about the fact that governments torture people, complain about it the rest of the time and not just when it makes the news.

Er... lots of people do complain about it all the time. Including several posting in this thread.

And just because some governments torture doesn't mean that civilized nations should condone it.

[elton]

Because the US, and the UK when it concerns us are countries that should be above such things, and where they are against the law.

We hold ourselves and each other to much higher standards, and so we should!

[acceraStoof]

Even Jack Bauer doesn't enjoy it.

[VodsNittats]

You do realize that according to the document dump by Obama, the program was considered to be an "absolute success" right?

Documents produced by the Bush Administration. An Administration never, ever, never stooped to lying.

[diutuartina]

Because the US, and the UK when it concerns us are countries that should be above such things, and where they are against the law.

We hold ourselves and each other to much higher standards, and so we should!

link



Human rights are theoretically universal. So why do we hold Nigeria to a lower standard than the United Kingdom? Is it because the people they torture are niggers?

This same issue bugs me about Israel and Palestine. Israel is held to a higher standard for no good reason.

Standards are standards. All nations should be judged by the same standards, because everybody in every country is endowed with the same fundamental rights.

[BodeOmissemia]

Quick search on "nigeria police torture" brought this up...

BBC Article on Nigerian police


Back at the Sars office the next day, two suspects are brought to Mr Osaghae's office.

One, a young man is accused of organising the rape and robbery of a woman who lives in a building he used to guard.

"You will take us to your accomplices," orders Mr Osaghae.

"I don't know who you are talking about," says the man.

"Why are you lying? Take him back to the cells. In 15 minutes you will tell the truth," says Mr Osaghae.

When asked what he meant by that, he refuses to elaborate.

Before speaking to another suspect, Mr Osaghae asks for 15 minutes alone with him.

When the BBC is let back in the room, the man tearfully confesses to being a kidnapper.

Mrs Okenyodo says the Cleen Foundation has pictures and witness statements that accuse Sars police of torture and killing of suspects.

Enugu Commissioner of Police Mohammed Zarewa denies his men beat confessions out of people - the deaths are likely to be as a result of fire-fights with armed criminals, he says.

"Any criminal can get a lawyer and make up a story," he says.

Mr Zarewa has just been posted to Enugu, and he promises to investigate any accusation levelled against his officers.

But Mrs Okenyodo says none of the cases brought up by police reform activists have been investigated.

"The east of Nigeria, in terms of policing, is crazy," she says.

[NikolaAAA]

The problem Lori was pointing out is that for every high profile case there are thousands of people around the world who are tortured as part of routine police investigations. The public perception appears to be one of either blissful ignorance, or apathy.

The lower standard isn't official government posture (although the State department is as prone to error as anything else made by man) but rather the attitude that some in the West feel about their inherent superiority. It seems like many still regard Africans and Asians as childish retards, barely capable of making the right decision unless guided by the hands of enlightened white men. The people there are just as culpable for their mistakes as any of us.

Um, no. Stop being retarded. People in the West appear to care more about what their countries are doing because they LIVE in them or are very close allies with those countries and thus work in close contact with them.

In addition, the US has had the greatest moral force since WW2 among the free world (tm) [mostly because the US has told so many people how they are violating human rights over the years], so it tends to create a really bad example when it starts torturing people. Its like if Mahatma Gandhi started electrocuting British officers balls.

[kertUtire]

Imran,

Holding America to a higher standard does make sense as a symbolic issue. However, symbolism won't free the people held captive in Iran, Burma, or Zimbabwe. Those and other lower profile nations (like Nigeria) ought to be held accountable, or else this is all a bunch of trendy hipster bullshit.

[Reafnartefs]

This same issue bugs me about Israel and Palestine. Israel is held to a higher standard for no good reason. No good reason?

Israel is a state. Palestine is not. That's for starters. Second, Israel loudly proclaims how wonderful it is, how it's a democracy surrounded by authoritarian monstrosities, etc. If you climb up on top of a mountain and proclaim your moral superiority, you're going to be held to a higher standard, and rightly so. Same with us. The US routinely criticizes other governments for torture and such. But when we do it, suddenly it's fine (or it's "not really torture" or whatever other bullshit excuse we choose to cling to).

This is the basic issue, really: you cannot simultaneously proclaim that you're the "good guys" and all that (greatest nation on earth!!!1111!!!) whilst doing the very things the "bad guys" are doing, for which you label them bad guys. It doesn't pass a basic laugh test, except amongst a certain segment of our own population.

-Arrian