[Cydayshosse]

I've long been an advocate for increased powers for the Welsh Assembly, a national conversation on the arrangement between the Scots and the rest of the UK and for building a giant glass dome over Northern Ireland and seeing if they can sort themselves out before the oxygen run out.

[flopay]

Originally posted by Sandman


In the UK, the existence of ancient kingdoms is a minor barrier to that. If it was carved out by Dark Age warlords, then it's seem as a legitimate politcal entity. I'm partial to reestablishing the Heptarchy.

[Stacypettlerr]

Originally posted by Sandman
In the UK, the existence of ancient kingdoms is a minor barrier to that. If it was carved out by Dark Age warlords, then it's seen as a legitimate political entity. I'm hoping Starchild doesn't really hold to that, though.

[RicyReetred]

Originally posted by Krill
Can't decide if that is a troll or if Kuci doesn't realise that England doesn't mind being rid of the scots... I'm aware of the sentiment, at least among the English on Poly, but I don't know how sincere it is among the general population. And I'm dubious that your central government would just let Scotland go.

Moreover, there are plenty of other countries without your special circumstances, that believe very strongly in the sovereignty of the central government. AIUI, Spain vs. the Basques is an example.

[rJohutozsfds]

The fact that they do this is evidence that you're all sheeple. They stopped singing the national anthem at my school because too many students were singing the rude words (you aren't a real country unless you have rude words to your national anthem).

Forced national anthem singing, pledging and marching are crypto-fascist. Loyalty to one's country is required when necessary, not compelled when unecessary.

[cypedembeda]

Originally posted by BeBro
The price of freedom is eternal Frenchhood, esp. when you're fried It makes sense. Jefferson was a closet frenchie.

[Qvqnubpj]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I'm hoping Starchild doesn't really hold to that, though. He said he didn't mind if Berwick-upon-Tweed seceded. To the British mind (and possibly Europeans generally) this makes 'sense', because this town was in an ambiguous situation for a long time. It's not the same for, say, Plymouth or Hull.

[JennyStewarta]

Reminds me of Catch-22. I'm sure you could ad few more pledges around, maybe before giving the squirts any food, or letting them leave the school.

[blogforlovxr]

I hope you never live in a fascist state. You wouldn't last five minutes.

If I were in Saudi Arabia, and the bells tolled, I would do whatever was appropriate to show my respect while they were praying (not actually pray, of course, but stand, sit, whatever.) It's called 'respect for others', and is something that must be learned to become a mature adult.

Feel free to object to the pledge being said in school; that's certainly reasonable (wrong IMO, but reasonable). Objecting because kids are punished for not being respectful, is another, and unreasonable.

Perhaps this is what is truly wrong with this country... this incredibly arrogant and selfish lack of respect for others.

[ancexttew]

Originally posted by snoopy369


I hope you never live in a fascist state. You wouldn't last five minutes.

If I were in Saudi Arabia, and the bells tolled, I would do whatever was appropriate to show my respect while they were praying (not actually pray, of course, but stand, sit, whatever.) It's called 'respect for others', and is something that must be learned to become a mature adult.

Feel free to object to the pledge being said in school; that's certainly reasonable (wrong IMO, but reasonable). Objecting because kids are punished for not being respectful, is another, and unreasonable.

Perhaps this is what is truly wrong with this country... this incredibly arrogant and selfish lack of respect for others. Heh. I've made similar arguments to this, saying someone was abusing the term fascist. The shoe is on the other foot today.

I take "you wouldn't last five minutes" in a fascist state as a compliment. If that's true, it means I'd have the balls to stand up and call bullshit (and therefore get squished by the secret police or whatever). I'm not sure I would, but I hope so. Thanks

If I were in Saudi Arabia, in addition to being vaguely concerned b/c of its authoritarian systems (political and religious), I would also be cognizant of my status as a GUEST. That takes the respect requirement up a notch, IMO. Americans not respecting the PoA here in America isn't analogous.

I personally showed respect for the PoA. I stood and was silent (once I'd thought it through. Up until I was about these kids' age, I recited it mindlessly, just like I was supposed to do).

I am against the PoA. I am also against enforcing a show of respect to the PoA, because the PoA isn't worthy of respect. It's something that thinking citizens of the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave should openly deride.

-Arrian

[QWNPdpr5]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Telling children to recite the pledge is disrespectfull.

Telling kids to recite the pledge is the same thing, in effect, as telling them to pray to a particular God. Not only should kids not have to participate, in any way, but they shouldn't be allowed to recite such fascist crap. So, just to be clear:

Forcing kids to say a certain thing--fascist.
Forbidding kids to say a certain thing--not fascist.

Is that about the size of it?

[rassedgesse]

Snoopy:

There's a bit of a difference between 1. forcing children to acquire knowledge by working, and 2. indoctrinate children to a doctrine regardless whether it means to repeat it mindlessly or to "respect" it.

During the 19th and 20th century, school was often used in the west to indoctrinate children into nationalism. But since then, most western countries are now fairly confident in their feeling of nationhood, and don't use such a clumsy indoctrination anymore... It's surprising the US clings on this relic of the past, which is seriously at odds with what the US stands for today.

[gogoleanylinkfo]

He's a mod, right?

-Arrian

[Maribellin]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Snoopy:

There's a bit of a difference between 1. forcing children to acquire knowledge by working, and 2. indoctrinate children to a doctrine regardless whether it means to repeat it mindlessly or to "respect" it.

During the 19th and 20th century, school was often used in the west to indoctrinate children into nationalism. But since then, most western countries are now fairly confident in their feeling of nationhood, and don't use such a clumsy indoctrination anymore... It's surprising the US clings on this relic of the past, which is seriously at odds with what the US stands for today. 1. School is indoctrination. What else can it be? The control we have is over what they are indoctrinated with. Don't fool yourself in believing that teaching kids the socratic method or whatnot is anything other than indoctrination; it's just indoctrination with the socratic method. It's not like we do - or should - give kids a choice of what to learn, except at the very broad and relatively meaningless level of 'electives'; in very few schools does 'elective' mean anything other that do you take choir or orchestra or band, or home ec or spanish. Every school in the country requires certain key elements, such as english, math, science, etc.; and this is what kids must learn, and they must repeat it back to the teacher when asked. The difference between this and the Pledge of Allegiance is trivial.

2. Teaching kids to respect everyone is quite important, in my opinion. Again - if my kids end up in Saudi Arabia, I expect them to do whatever is considered respectful during their prayer services, or stay off the *******streets otherwise. Respect does not mean agreement, or belief; it simply means acting in a way that is polite and shows you value others' opinions, regardless of your own feelings. It is unfortunately something lost in many otherwise intelligent people.

As of when did
[q="Not Voltaire"]I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it[/q]
become a fascist refrain, anyway? It's not so fundamentally different from what I am asking...

[puzobok]

Originally posted by Agathon
How long have you been posting here again?

Most of the forum members are extremely authoritarian. Well, they did write the book on heavy-handed repression. Thing is, you burned that book, so now there's no evidence.

[husartrof]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
When did Snoopy become such a ****ing fascist? Probably the first grade.

[ImmimiFruff]

Originally posted by Elok


So, just to be clear:

Forcing kids to say a certain thing--fascist.
Forbidding kids to say a certain thing--not fascist.

Is that about the size of it? They can say anything they want, when not at school.